> I think this attempt to push people toward an uncommitted vote is a tactic to split the left and generate infighting that can be exploited for the benefit of China, Russia, Iran and North Korea (and, to a lesser but still significant extent, the Republican party here in the USA).
this is a conspiracy theory. the people advocating for it are explaining their motivation and tactic clearly. choosing not to believe them is paranoia.
That's not really a conspiracy theory. It's exactly how propaganda and state sponsored FUD works.
The spreaders of propaganda find a point where they can create dissension, create a talking point around that point of dissension, convince people that it's their idea to buy into the dissension.
Example of how FUD works. This is not something that I know happened. This is just a hypothetical example of FUD works, it is not known fact. I was not sitting in a room with a bunch of Russian agents that decided to AstroTurf beehaw or some other radical left wing Lemmy instance with a trendy talking point so they can influence the 2024 American presidential election in an effort to get a president elected who will withdraw American support for NATO, eleminate funding for the Ukraine war effort, and support Zionist ambitions in Israel. This is just an example of how FUD works.
Russia/RNC/whoever see they can exploit the genocide in Israel to weaken Joe Biden by framing him as a perpetrator of genocide. They go on internet forums that are sympathetic to this cause like Lemmy. They pose as upset Democratic voters that are going to teach the DNC a lesson by refusing to vote for Joe Biden and help get Trump reelected. They have bad faith discussions with well meaning but gullible Lemmings (known as useful idiots or "UI") and convince the UI that not supporting Joe Biden is the right thing to do and that the UI is a reasonable person that is just responding the facts in front of them. They do this by coming up with catchy nicknames like Genocide Joe and appealing to the UI's need to feel heard and be represented. The UI then goes about their day spreading this message far and wide never realizing they were manipulated into believing something and engaging in an action that will ultimately harm them.
It's standard procedure perfected by the Russians over the last 10 years or so. People are incredibly easy to manipulate, that's why advertising and marketing are so effective.
you're theorizing that there is a conspiracy.
Which part is the theory?
>Russia/RNC/whoever see they can exploit the genocide in Israel to weaken Joe Biden by framing him as a perpetrator of genocide.
and
>They go on internet forums that are sympathetic to this cause like Lemmy.
and
>They pose as upset Democratic voters that are going to teach the DNC a lesson by refusing to vote for Joe Biden and help get Trump reelected.
and
>They have bad faith discussions with well meaning but gullible Lemmings (known as useful idiots or "UI") and convince the UI that not supporting Joe Biden is the right thing to do and that the UI is a reasonable person that is just responding the facts in front of them.
and
> They do this by coming up with catchy nicknames like Genocide Joe and appealing to the UI's need to feel heard and be represented.
and
>The UI then goes about their day spreading this message far and wide never realizing they were manipulated into believing something and engaging in an action that will ultimately harm them.
That was an example of how FUD works. I can see why you think state sponsored FUD is a conspiracy that doesn't exist.
your example isnt fact: it's a theory about how a conspiracy could be trying to influence people on the fediverse.
I updated my comment so hopefully it's clearer. Its well documented that Russia and China use social media to spread FUD, which undoubtedly includes the fediverse.
This part is conjecture: it seems likely that the fediverse is an entry point for FUD because the lack of moderation and the large number of users sympathetic to their cause.
It's utterly convenient that your conspiracy theory allows you to dismiss those whose opinions you don't like.
Are you implying FUD is a conspiracy theory? Or that FUD exists on the fediverse is a conspiracy theory? Or that the recent "vote uncommitted movement is FUD" is the conspiracy theory?
Regardless, I'm not dismissing the vote uncommitted opinion, and I certainly don't dislike it. Even if the "vote uncommitted" movement is Russian FUD I'm all in on it, and I'm even committed to taking it a step further because I'm so upset about the Joe Biden's extreme facists policies.
I'm saying that every time you see someone who doesn't support genocide, you immediately jump to "they must be Russian!"
"vote uncommitted movement is FUD" is the conspiracy theory
Sorry for not making it more clear, that is an example of how FUD works and not something I know for certain is FUD.
It has a lot of the hallmarks of a Russian FUD campaign. It's catchy, it's easy to explain and understand, it has a very strong appeal to emotion, it's easy for someone to participate in and feel good about themselves, it allows participants to feel connected to a cause without actually having to really do anything, it undermines Biden's presidency to the benefit of Russia and Trump.
Given the timing, the nature of the campaign, how it seems to be spreading, and who benefits from it, I think that there's a really good chance that Russians or some other group are amplifying and spreading the campaign even if they didn't originate it.
I am open to the possibility that it's a purely organic campaign, however we're unlikely to ever know with certainty if the vote uncommited campaign is FUD or organic. Unfortunately that's just the nature of FUD which makes it so effective.
> I think this attempt to push people toward an uncommitted vote is a tactic to split the left and generate infighting that can be exploited for the benefit of China, Russia, Iran and North Korea (and, to a lesser but still significant extent, the Republican party here in the USA).
this is a conspiracy theory. the people advocating for it are explaining their motivation and tactic clearly. choosing not to believe them is paranoia.
That's not really a conspiracy theory. It's exactly how propaganda and state sponsored FUD works.
The spreaders of propaganda find a point where they can create dissension, create a talking point around that point of dissension, convince people that it's their idea to buy into the dissension.
Example of how FUD works. This is not something that I know happened. This is just a hypothetical example of FUD works, it is not known fact. I was not sitting in a room with a bunch of Russian agents that decided to AstroTurf beehaw or some other radical left wing Lemmy instance with a trendy talking point so they can influence the 2024 American presidential election in an effort to get a president elected who will withdraw American support for NATO, eleminate funding for the Ukraine war effort, and support Zionist ambitions in Israel. This is just an example of how FUD works.
Russia/RNC/whoever see they can exploit the genocide in Israel to weaken Joe Biden by framing him as a perpetrator of genocide. They go on internet forums that are sympathetic to this cause like Lemmy. They pose as upset Democratic voters that are going to teach the DNC a lesson by refusing to vote for Joe Biden and help get Trump reelected. They have bad faith discussions with well meaning but gullible Lemmings (known as useful idiots or "UI") and convince the UI that not supporting Joe Biden is the right thing to do and that the UI is a reasonable person that is just responding the facts in front of them. They do this by coming up with catchy nicknames like Genocide Joe and appealing to the UI's need to feel heard and be represented. The UI then goes about their day spreading this message far and wide never realizing they were manipulated into believing something and engaging in an action that will ultimately harm them.
It's standard procedure perfected by the Russians over the last 10 years or so. People are incredibly easy to manipulate, that's why advertising and marketing are so effective.
you're theorizing that there is a conspiracy.
Which part is the theory?
>Russia/RNC/whoever see they can exploit the genocide in Israel to weaken Joe Biden by framing him as a perpetrator of genocide.
and
>They go on internet forums that are sympathetic to this cause like Lemmy.
and
>They pose as upset Democratic voters that are going to teach the DNC a lesson by refusing to vote for Joe Biden and help get Trump reelected.
and
>They have bad faith discussions with well meaning but gullible Lemmings (known as useful idiots or "UI") and convince the UI that not supporting Joe Biden is the right thing to do and that the UI is a reasonable person that is just responding the facts in front of them.
and
> They do this by coming up with catchy nicknames like Genocide Joe and appealing to the UI's need to feel heard and be represented.
and
>The UI then goes about their day spreading this message far and wide never realizing they were manipulated into believing something and engaging in an action that will ultimately harm them.
That was an example of how FUD works. I can see why you think state sponsored FUD is a conspiracy that doesn't exist.
your example isnt fact: it's a theory about how a conspiracy could be trying to influence people on the fediverse.
I updated my comment so hopefully it's clearer. Its well documented that Russia and China use social media to spread FUD, which undoubtedly includes the fediverse.
This part is conjecture: it seems likely that the fediverse is an entry point for FUD because the lack of moderation and the large number of users sympathetic to their cause.
It's utterly convenient that your conspiracy theory allows you to dismiss those whose opinions you don't like.
Are you implying FUD is a conspiracy theory? Or that FUD exists on the fediverse is a conspiracy theory? Or that the recent "vote uncommitted movement is FUD" is the conspiracy theory?
Regardless, I'm not dismissing the vote uncommitted opinion, and I certainly don't dislike it. Even if the "vote uncommitted" movement is Russian FUD I'm all in on it, and I'm even committed to taking it a step further because I'm so upset about the Joe Biden's extreme facists policies.
I'm saying that every time you see someone who doesn't support genocide, you immediately jump to "they must be Russian!"
"vote uncommitted movement is FUD" is the conspiracy theory
Sorry for not making it more clear, that is an example of how FUD works and not something I know for certain is FUD.
It has a lot of the hallmarks of a Russian FUD campaign. It's catchy, it's easy to explain and understand, it has a very strong appeal to emotion, it's easy for someone to participate in and feel good about themselves, it allows participants to feel connected to a cause without actually having to really do anything, it undermines Biden's presidency to the benefit of Russia and Trump.
Given the timing, the nature of the campaign, how it seems to be spreading, and who benefits from it, I think that there's a really good chance that Russians or some other group are amplifying and spreading the campaign even if they didn't originate it.
I am open to the possibility that it's a purely organic campaign, however we're unlikely to ever know with certainty if the vote uncommited campaign is FUD or organic. Unfortunately that's just the nature of FUD which makes it so effective.
Then I'm paranoid. Guess that's what living through recent history does to observations of the present.