Accelerationism at this point is merely an argument for liberals to convince people who are not fascists to support their liberalism as a lesser danger.
You make me mad. You make me mad because you've deluded yourself into believing fatalistic death cult BS, willing to drag other people down with you. Liberals might be deluded and wrong, but you're honestly worse. Liberals are more open minded than you, more hopeful than you, and believe in building a popular coalition. I don't care if you recognize capitalism is bad, you're not helping anyone do anything about it.
"Eat shit and die" is what I'm hearing from your empty justifications for inaction. I've barely started living my life, and you're saying "it just needs to end. Sorry. Nothing to be done." I like my life, unlike you apparently, so I'm going to reject your ideas emphatically.
Fuck your opinion. Just like fascist dribble, it deserves no respect.
Another thing : my view is not doomerism. I merely stop to fight for the liberals. Chaos bring opportunities. Liberals are doing everything to keep a status that's rottening. They are actively supporting fascism to keep the status quo. I'm not sure if they're blinding themselves into believing that they can keep the fascism away, or if they are actively pushing for it willingly. But it's happening.
I'm not saying that all is lost and there's no hope. I'm saying that helping the liberals today is only helping the fascists tomorrow. Things will get worse. That's not doomerism, that's a hard fact. Something must be done now.
Sorry, but there aren't opportunities in chaos. That's some cringe edgelord larping. There are no opportunities gained in chaos, only death and suffering.
Honestly, your goofy accelerationism seems more like the cope of someone that's given up what they see as "the first game." You think you can come back in the second game and win a best of 3. Again, I'm sorry to disappoint, but there probably won't be a 2nd game for you unless you're incredibly lucky.
I'm not betting on a second chance. There's no benefit to not trying my hardest on game 1 if won't do much to improve my chances of making it to game 2. If your strategy is to hide, you're a privileged coward. Most people won't have that chance, and betting that you aren't most people is wistful thinking.
And what are you doing in this game 1 exactly to succeed? Voting for the lesser evil? Unless something is in the bag for the next term to radically change how it's going, it'll only get worse. I don't see how a liberal will radically change anything.
This battle is lost already. It was lost when Biden was made the candidate. Now it's time to prepare for the next battle. Because fighting this one will only make you weaker for the next one.
Fortunately, voting isn't that much of a burden relatively speaking. It can also be a springboard for popularizing leftist ideas and attitudes. There aren't significant downsides except leftist pride(which is less than worthless). I'll vote for that lesser evil AND prepare for a potential disaster because they aren't mutually exclusive you arrogant block of lead.
Because you don't see the downside doesn't mean there aren't. It's ironic that you talk about arrogance when you're so blind, disrespectful and comfident in your opinion.
You don't understand. I did not deluded myself to anything. I abandoned a system that's working against so many people.
The question is not for the left whether to support liberals or fascists. The question is for liberals whether to support socialism or fascism. It's the people in power who get to choose. And liberals are in power for so many decades that they have no excuse for the shit we're in now.
The system is broken, fucked, dysfunction, shitty, and unacceptable. That doesn't change the fact that it's better than openly genocidal fascism. I might die under Democrats; I will die under Republicans.
We inherently lack freedom of choice on most things. You don't choose the class of your parents. You don't choose your gender, sex, attraction, neurotypicality, ethnicity, race, culture, or access to learning as a child. You have to play the cards you're given.
In a purely descriptive sense, Republican control will result in every bad thing that would happen under Democrats, plus all the promises they're making about LGBTQ genocide, absurd deregulation, removal of every social program, invading Mexico, targeted prosecution of political threats, and mandatory fascist propaganda in schools. Those are just some of consequences id Republicans win.
The cost of the 2nd amendment is thousands of deaths from guns every year that wouldn't have happened without it. 2nd amendment advocates constantly ignore that consequence. If you try to show it to them, they mentally cannot perceive it. They ignore the costs and live in the delusion that they get a free lunch. A lot of conservative logic hinges on ignoring "externalities," that they don't personally have to deal with. They love talking about basic economics, but their supposed worldview cannot accept it.
Even the cynical conservatives are often living a delusion. They recognize the direct pain they cause to poor people, but they fail to recognize the long term cost of their behavior. Encouraging global fascism has the adorable effect of increasing the risk of global conflict. Just as most liberals ignored the fascism that capitalism leads to, fascists ignore the serious war that nationalism leads to.
Modern war between nations cannot be won by the participants. Liberals aren't much better on this front, nor are many socialists for that matter. The reality is that we need deescalation or everyone might lose. We don't just need to not accelerate, we need to slam on the breaks. The odds are stacked against success, but fueling the fire is joining the global death cult that fascists and liberals are unwittingly leading.
In short, you're thinking small like humans are designed to do. Humans are dangerous, so not trying to exploit them isn't just morally right, but prudent.
I'm not fueling any fire. It's already burning, and voting for liberals is what fuels the fire.
You're talking about US politics. Isn't the situation dire already? Republican already are indirectly supporting Russian war, fomenting civil war, and destroying people rights. Are you telling me that media are overstating all of this? That the situation is fine actually and it can go like this for many more years yet?
How did it got better with Biden in 3 and a half year?
It would have been worst is always the predicament of the liberals. Everything else is worse. There is no alternative. But it's a dead end. And we're on the wall already.
Supporting the liberals is fighting those who want to make a better world. It's supporting fascism.
And to get back to the subject : not voting is a right, and it is the only vote that doesn't support fascism.
You can choose to commit suicide. It is an option. That doesn't mean you should take it.
So you're actually the desperate one if you think that not voting this election is committing suicide.
Yes. I am desperate to live. That's a virtue, not a vice.
At the end of the day, you just have an inaccurate view of reality. You're motivated by anger to think prolonging liberalism isn't worth it because it's a shit worldview that should be destroyed. I agree that it sucks and should be replaced, but I recognize that empowering fascism has no real upside. It doesn't matter what liberalism "deserves," as blame is only useful in guiding us to real justice. Mechanically, what is the best strategy for minimizing harm and maximizing well being?
The liberals are empowering fascism. Which is the problem you seem blind to.
But as always liberals will never be accountable for their faults, and when fascism rise they blame it on the left. Exactly as you're doing.
I asked someone on here if they'd punch a nazi, really disappointing response. Feel like this guy would say it's wrong too
You just can't accept the possibility that I agree about liberals & liberalism empowering fascism. You talk about blame and accountability, assuming those concepts are anything but instrumental in accomplishing real justice.
Real justice is making things as good as you can in the future, & being just is the practice of trying your best to do so with the information you have. Punishment for punishment's sake is a fools errand.
I don't give a flying fuck about making liberals suffer. I want what's best for me and others. Not voting won't make things better than if I vote Dem, the same as I did in 2020. That's the bottom line.
You're not making things better. You're trying for things to not be too much worse.
When the choices are both bad, I don't want to be an accomplice to any of them. I don't want to validate any of them. Because they're both bad. There just happen to be one worse than the other. But it'll happen eventually anyway regardless of your choice in this election.
You're not making things better. You're trying for things to not be too much worse.
You say this like it isn't my point. You're not invalidating shit. It can easily be argued that not voting makes you the accomplice of whoever wins the election. You chose not to vote, so you're fine with whoever wins. If Biden wins, you're responsible. If Trump wins, you're responsible. You could have weighted in on how much worse things should get, but I guess it's up to liberals and fascists.
You cannot get off the boat. You have to deal with it as much as everyone else. Not voting will not make you or other leftists better off, especially because there is no good plan or strategy on how to prepare for this mythical 2nd round. Like I said, death cult larper shit.
That cannot be argued. Because that would make it a parody of democracy like China or Russia.
Either you can not vote for either candidate, or your democracy is not worth more than those parodies of it.
That would make it a parody of democracy like China or Russia.
If I lived in China or Russia, I would still vote if I could. I'd have to avoid psyop candidates for my own safety, but I'd definitely exert what little will I had to pick the lesser evils.
Why? Even with those shit elections, the are some issues on the ballot. I couldn't choose any anti authoritarian candidates, but I could vote for someone who'd be better on more contested issues. Maybe I could choose a candidate that follows science more, or is less aggressive about invading Taiwan. That last one is a big deal, as war is way worse than most people think. It's honestly hard to have net gains out of wars for the ones fighting.
In local elections, you can build up support for a slightly better narrative; a narrative that won't directly question the state, but make it suck less. States suck, but you HAVE to exist in them until they actually collapse. You can undermine them, but only if you have a plan. That strategy must be thought out, organized, and prepared for, just like how the theocratic fascists have done it. They built to the movement that exists now, convincing Christians to abandon liberalism in any form. They did this by WINNING elections, not by boycotting them.
If anything, it could be argued that a collapse of liberalism under Biden would be better for revolutionaries than a fascist takeover that eventually collapses. That fascist state will crush all leftist organizing in ways that liberals wouldn't even think of. They will force all Marxist discussions underground and do frequent raids of the tunnels. That doesn't sound like breeding ground for leftism to me.
If a liberal state collapses, people will be unenthusiastic about liberalism. If a fascist state that used to be liberal collapses, liberals can more easily argue that we need to return to liberalism. The only way your perspective makes sense is if you assume liberalism can't collapse without turning to fascism. I doubt that's backed up by history. Liberal states might turn authoritarian in their final moments, but that isn't really like the populist fascism of Trump.
You make me mad. You make me mad because you've deluded yourself into believing fatalistic death cult BS, willing to drag other people down with you. Liberals might be deluded and wrong, but you're honestly worse. Liberals are more open minded than you, more hopeful than you, and believe in building a popular coalition. I don't care if you recognize capitalism is bad, you're not helping anyone do anything about it.
"Eat shit and die" is what I'm hearing from your empty justifications for inaction. I've barely started living my life, and you're saying "it just needs to end. Sorry. Nothing to be done." I like my life, unlike you apparently, so I'm going to reject your ideas emphatically.
Fuck your opinion. Just like fascist dribble, it deserves no respect.
Another thing : my view is not doomerism. I merely stop to fight for the liberals. Chaos bring opportunities. Liberals are doing everything to keep a status that's rottening. They are actively supporting fascism to keep the status quo. I'm not sure if they're blinding themselves into believing that they can keep the fascism away, or if they are actively pushing for it willingly. But it's happening.
I'm not saying that all is lost and there's no hope. I'm saying that helping the liberals today is only helping the fascists tomorrow. Things will get worse. That's not doomerism, that's a hard fact. Something must be done now.
Sorry, but there aren't opportunities in chaos. That's some cringe edgelord larping. There are no opportunities gained in chaos, only death and suffering.
Honestly, your goofy accelerationism seems more like the cope of someone that's given up what they see as "the first game." You think you can come back in the second game and win a best of 3. Again, I'm sorry to disappoint, but there probably won't be a 2nd game for you unless you're incredibly lucky.
I'm not betting on a second chance. There's no benefit to not trying my hardest on game 1 if won't do much to improve my chances of making it to game 2. If your strategy is to hide, you're a privileged coward. Most people won't have that chance, and betting that you aren't most people is wistful thinking.
And what are you doing in this game 1 exactly to succeed? Voting for the lesser evil? Unless something is in the bag for the next term to radically change how it's going, it'll only get worse. I don't see how a liberal will radically change anything.
This battle is lost already. It was lost when Biden was made the candidate. Now it's time to prepare for the next battle. Because fighting this one will only make you weaker for the next one.
Fortunately, voting isn't that much of a burden relatively speaking. It can also be a springboard for popularizing leftist ideas and attitudes. There aren't significant downsides except leftist pride(which is less than worthless). I'll vote for that lesser evil AND prepare for a potential disaster because they aren't mutually exclusive you arrogant block of lead.
Because you don't see the downside doesn't mean there aren't. It's ironic that you talk about arrogance when you're so blind, disrespectful and comfident in your opinion.
You don't understand. I did not deluded myself to anything. I abandoned a system that's working against so many people.
The question is not for the left whether to support liberals or fascists. The question is for liberals whether to support socialism or fascism. It's the people in power who get to choose. And liberals are in power for so many decades that they have no excuse for the shit we're in now.
The system is broken, fucked, dysfunction, shitty, and unacceptable. That doesn't change the fact that it's better than openly genocidal fascism. I might die under Democrats; I will die under Republicans.
We inherently lack freedom of choice on most things. You don't choose the class of your parents. You don't choose your gender, sex, attraction, neurotypicality, ethnicity, race, culture, or access to learning as a child. You have to play the cards you're given.
In a purely descriptive sense, Republican control will result in every bad thing that would happen under Democrats, plus all the promises they're making about LGBTQ genocide, absurd deregulation, removal of every social program, invading Mexico, targeted prosecution of political threats, and mandatory fascist propaganda in schools. Those are just some of consequences id Republicans win.
The cost of the 2nd amendment is thousands of deaths from guns every year that wouldn't have happened without it. 2nd amendment advocates constantly ignore that consequence. If you try to show it to them, they mentally cannot perceive it. They ignore the costs and live in the delusion that they get a free lunch. A lot of conservative logic hinges on ignoring "externalities," that they don't personally have to deal with. They love talking about basic economics, but their supposed worldview cannot accept it.
Even the cynical conservatives are often living a delusion. They recognize the direct pain they cause to poor people, but they fail to recognize the long term cost of their behavior. Encouraging global fascism has the adorable effect of increasing the risk of global conflict. Just as most liberals ignored the fascism that capitalism leads to, fascists ignore the serious war that nationalism leads to.
Modern war between nations cannot be won by the participants. Liberals aren't much better on this front, nor are many socialists for that matter. The reality is that we need deescalation or everyone might lose. We don't just need to not accelerate, we need to slam on the breaks. The odds are stacked against success, but fueling the fire is joining the global death cult that fascists and liberals are unwittingly leading.
In short, you're thinking small like humans are designed to do. Humans are dangerous, so not trying to exploit them isn't just morally right, but prudent.
I'm not fueling any fire. It's already burning, and voting for liberals is what fuels the fire.
You're talking about US politics. Isn't the situation dire already? Republican already are indirectly supporting Russian war, fomenting civil war, and destroying people rights. Are you telling me that media are overstating all of this? That the situation is fine actually and it can go like this for many more years yet?
How did it got better with Biden in 3 and a half year?
It would have been worst is always the predicament of the liberals. Everything else is worse. There is no alternative. But it's a dead end. And we're on the wall already.
Supporting the liberals is fighting those who want to make a better world. It's supporting fascism.
And to get back to the subject : not voting is a right, and it is the only vote that doesn't support fascism.
You can choose to commit suicide. It is an option. That doesn't mean you should take it.
So you're actually the desperate one if you think that not voting this election is committing suicide.
Yes. I am desperate to live. That's a virtue, not a vice.
At the end of the day, you just have an inaccurate view of reality. You're motivated by anger to think prolonging liberalism isn't worth it because it's a shit worldview that should be destroyed. I agree that it sucks and should be replaced, but I recognize that empowering fascism has no real upside. It doesn't matter what liberalism "deserves," as blame is only useful in guiding us to real justice. Mechanically, what is the best strategy for minimizing harm and maximizing well being?
The liberals are empowering fascism. Which is the problem you seem blind to.
But as always liberals will never be accountable for their faults, and when fascism rise they blame it on the left. Exactly as you're doing.
I asked someone on here if they'd punch a nazi, really disappointing response. Feel like this guy would say it's wrong too
You just can't accept the possibility that I agree about liberals & liberalism empowering fascism. You talk about blame and accountability, assuming those concepts are anything but instrumental in accomplishing real justice.
Real justice is making things as good as you can in the future, & being just is the practice of trying your best to do so with the information you have. Punishment for punishment's sake is a fools errand.
I don't give a flying fuck about making liberals suffer. I want what's best for me and others. Not voting won't make things better than if I vote Dem, the same as I did in 2020. That's the bottom line.
You're not making things better. You're trying for things to not be too much worse.
When the choices are both bad, I don't want to be an accomplice to any of them. I don't want to validate any of them. Because they're both bad. There just happen to be one worse than the other. But it'll happen eventually anyway regardless of your choice in this election.
You say this like it isn't my point. You're not invalidating shit. It can easily be argued that not voting makes you the accomplice of whoever wins the election. You chose not to vote, so you're fine with whoever wins. If Biden wins, you're responsible. If Trump wins, you're responsible. You could have weighted in on how much worse things should get, but I guess it's up to liberals and fascists.
You cannot get off the boat. You have to deal with it as much as everyone else. Not voting will not make you or other leftists better off, especially because there is no good plan or strategy on how to prepare for this mythical 2nd round. Like I said, death cult larper shit.
That cannot be argued. Because that would make it a parody of democracy like China or Russia.
Either you can not vote for either candidate, or your democracy is not worth more than those parodies of it.
If I lived in China or Russia, I would still vote if I could. I'd have to avoid psyop candidates for my own safety, but I'd definitely exert what little will I had to pick the lesser evils.
Why? Even with those shit elections, the are some issues on the ballot. I couldn't choose any anti authoritarian candidates, but I could vote for someone who'd be better on more contested issues. Maybe I could choose a candidate that follows science more, or is less aggressive about invading Taiwan. That last one is a big deal, as war is way worse than most people think. It's honestly hard to have net gains out of wars for the ones fighting.
In local elections, you can build up support for a slightly better narrative; a narrative that won't directly question the state, but make it suck less. States suck, but you HAVE to exist in them until they actually collapse. You can undermine them, but only if you have a plan. That strategy must be thought out, organized, and prepared for, just like how the theocratic fascists have done it. They built to the movement that exists now, convincing Christians to abandon liberalism in any form. They did this by WINNING elections, not by boycotting them.
If anything, it could be argued that a collapse of liberalism under Biden would be better for revolutionaries than a fascist takeover that eventually collapses. That fascist state will crush all leftist organizing in ways that liberals wouldn't even think of. They will force all Marxist discussions underground and do frequent raids of the tunnels. That doesn't sound like breeding ground for leftism to me.
If a liberal state collapses, people will be unenthusiastic about liberalism. If a fascist state that used to be liberal collapses, liberals can more easily argue that we need to return to liberalism. The only way your perspective makes sense is if you assume liberalism can't collapse without turning to fascism. I doubt that's backed up by history. Liberal states might turn authoritarian in their final moments, but that isn't really like the populist fascism of Trump.