PSA: Lemmy votes can be manipulated

koper@feddit.nl to Fediverse@lemmy.ml – 1934 points –

The best part of the fediverse is that anyone can run their own server. The downside of this is that anyone can easily create hordes of fake accounts, as I will now demonstrate.

Fighting fake accounts is hard and most implementations do not currently have an effective way of filtering out fake accounts. I'm sure that the developers will step in if this becomes a bigger problem. Until then, remember that votes are just a number.

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Get rid of votes. They suck.

Nah, I want to downvote Nazis. Their opinions don't matter and should be suppressed.

Suppress nazis by bullying them, not by passively downvoting their hate speech and moving on.

You can do both.

I guess. Ones really effective and tells everyone around you that the person is a nazi in case they were cloaking it, pushes back on their bullshit and makes everyone aware that it’s not okay to say shit like that and that it is okay to fight them.

The other is a downvote and changes where the nazi content ends up in a rank.

Nazis will always act in bad faith and it shouldn't surprise us when they use their 10 alts to fuck up voting, which is another reason to hide votes and focus on commenting rather than voting. Although i don't agree with the negative style of confrontation, the positive and neutral are great though. Commentate on each bad faith action they take in real time so the audience understands how stupid nazis are, and becomes resistant to bad faith tactics.

You can do both!

On Reddit, enough downvotes collapse the content so people who might really not feel up to seeing any Nazi content that day, even if there’s tons of pushback against it, didn’t have to see it. (Of course, the collapsed downvoted comment might have just been an unpopular but unbigoted and unharmful opinion, like “I think Mario games are poorly made and unfun” getting downvoted to hell. But it’s a risk you know you’re taking when you open a collapsed post with a score of -17. Unpopular opinion, spammer, or hate speech?). You have to open the comment thread to see it. I do not know if anything on the Fediverse has this functionality. Until then, downvotes can still make Nazi content less easy to see by being ranked lower.

And despite the downvotes, lots of people still responded to the Nazi anyways, in a way that let me know that this was one troll and the community was very much not accepting of bigotry. That was also useful. Both things have a place.

How else would you rank the content?

You don’t. Ranked content is a solution for owners of social media platforms to avoid paying moderators. It’s a no brainer if you want a cheap automatic advertising platform but isn’t great and requires constant intervention if you’re not monetizing somehow.

Getting rid of voting would do nothing to combat spam. There would be plenty of other ways communities could (and would) get spammed, not to mention how impossible interacting with and navigating communities with thousands of users would be even without the spam that would absolutely happen without content ranking.

Spam will happen on large platforms, and thankfully ActivityPub gives instances the ability to defederate/federate however they like to deal with problem instances. Personally, if Lemmy were to get rid of voting, there is no chance that I would use Lemmy whatsoever, and I feel pretty confident that most users wouldn't either.

If we could run microcommunities with single mods, that lock when we sleep and are invite only to post or comment, it'd be a pretty fun experiment. I could invite a dozen interesting people and we could just slowly chat away, id ban em if they break the simple rules and delete their post/comments. Anyone would be able to view it, like a blog and if they want to comment they can always make their own post for comments in their own microcommunity. You could be subscribed to stuff you actually care about, although it'd take a while. Some people could make content copy microcoms where they just solo post from reddit or whatever.

You’re commenting in a thread about vote spam. How can there be vote spam without votes?

If you’re worried about content spam why not look to the uhh 40 years of solutions to that problem.

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