Beehaw defederating from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works
BreadDog@kbin.social to 
Fediverse@kbin.social – 102 points – beehaw.org
Interesting bit of news for the threadiverse. All three of these are fairly large lemmy instances
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I kinda expected that after seeing them purge some threads made by lemmy users. I have to imagine we kbin users are gonna get cut next lmao.
Well we are one of the largest instances out there with open signups...
Good riddance. I like the no-downvote style but overzealous mods just create their own pillow fort of the same 5 users regurgitating the same shit over and over.
Perhaps harsh but beehaw strikes me as the tumblr/progressive/sjw types that really wanna build their safe space. Which makes me wonder why they're federating at all lol.
I'm very glad that kbin seems to have a "let's get all the content and speak freely" sorta vibe going on right now. hopefully things stay that way.
I got the same sense. Authoritarianism runs on both sides of the political spectrum.
While their FAQ touted an emphasis on empathy, the heavy flowery language while also making a point to refuse to have written rules at all somehow gave me a feeling of double-speak. The idea is nice, but now you're open to being banned because they felt like it, and you can't even explain how you weren't breaking the rules if no rules exist. Refusing to allow anyone but themselves to create communities backs up the authoritarian streak. Not interested. I assume if they don't, I'll eventually be banned there anyway. I really like debate and I really dislike dictatorships.
At least if one of the largest instances out there goes full Korea, it will leave other instances a chance to be noticed in their wake. It sounds salty, but I'm still getting used to what federation means for a platform and when we were still initially federating my entire feed was utterly nothing but beehaw. I am salty. I want as much variety as I can get.
Yup. Taking a look at their ethos/manifesto stuff it instantly became clear to me what sort of place beehaw is, and it's not one I'm super fond of, so I doubt I'll ever make an account there.
Yeah beehaw is pretty big at least from my perspective. I see three big communities: lemmy, kbin, and beehaw. and beehaw is easily the odd one out with their weird manifesto stuff lol. Which is why when they said they were defederating from lemmy, it kinda struck me as "oh kbin is next then" lol. but each of the three kinda have a different vibe to me, so maybe kbin is tolerable to beehaw while lemmy isn't?
I haven't had much experience with lemmy at all, in order to guess, and I've seen conflicting things about them. Lemmy was already bigger and it feels like it got a lot more publicity than kbin, so they bore the brunt of the exodus. It's possible they didn't get as lucky as we did in who that constituted. The devs' weird CCP bent overshadowing some other instances' reportedly great admins just makes it even more of a confusing mess culture-wise.
I'd like to think we can abide by such stringent
rulesimplications as "be nice." But their stated reasoning is that there's just too much content to ever hope to moderate by themselves, which.....they really should have seen coming on a platform whose intent is to federate, ngl. Doesn't matter if your homebase is young. You need underlings for this once it gets beyond a couple hundred people.Which is why I'm leaning on the side of beehaw eventually deciding there's no choice but to defed way more than this until and unless they can afford help. With four admin-mods alone against the mercy of the entire fediverse, their hopes of upholding the mission statement will eventually be laughable any other way.
Not that I think we're nearly as bad as other places out there. I think we've got a surprisingly great atmosphere going and I hope to god it stays. But those are their two options, and kbin users seem to have an admirably civil tendency both to shitpost and to question and hear out differing viewpoints in a way I'm not sure beehaw will appreciate.
Yup. I completely agree. I understand why beehaw defederated from lemmy because lemmy kinda seems... unhinged, in comparison to beehaw's carefully crafted community.
Whereas kbin I think you're right, tend to be happy to civilly hear each other out. whereas I feel like beehaw isn't really interested in that. Though I think of kbin users respect beehaw's way of doing things while we're in their space, they might not have issues with us.
granted, the response I got was "we don't even think about you" so maybe kbin is too small to really be noticeable to them lol.
Unhinged. You've found the perfect word for it. They come off to me like what happens in study hall when the instructor has to leave.
Goodness, my pride, lmao. I think I'm quite content not to be such a giant enough instance I get thought of. Hundreds of comfier, smaller places over Reddit Deux any day. I agree, the people here seem on the whole cognizant enough to keep themselves in check, rather than...whatever reddit was. That would be one behavior I am thrilled to see die, and hopefully federating with more chaotic instances won't kick it up again. I'm concerned it may.
haha you've summed up my thoughts exactly. it's a little interesting seeing lemmy get the wilder side of reddit and kbin getting the more reserved side. whereas both are "similar" enough that I think we're fine with each other.
Beehaw hasn't really defederated from Lemmy. They still allow the biggest Lemmy instance and a lot of smaller Lemmy instances. What they have done is block 2 of the top 4 (hard to count since the user count tools are having issues here on the lemmy side)..
I first had worries about Lemmy and thought about kbin first, but seems the reddit migration has managed to make the issues minor in my case. There's less issues. So, I'm surprised Beehaw had that amount of trolling.
ahh, it's 2010 again!
They literally said they want that instance to be their safe-space, so you are absolutely correct.
Still it's surprising how quickly a block-happy instance appeared, I was expecting it but not only days into this reddit-wave.
I'm still figuring out proper tone haha. but yes.
Does kbin have good mod tools?
I'm fairly new to kbin but we do have mod tools here, and people have used them to moderate their community. So far I haven't seen any issues with spam or what I'd say is trolling (though beehaw may think different). As for whether the mod tools are "good" I guess is one's opinion. I find they're enough to moderate the small communities I started here on kbin, though I have to imagine much larger (100k-1m) communities might struggle with the tools available. kbin is very new and still under development. so we'll see.
Yeah. I would also imagine that a place like Beehaw is going to attract bad actors and trolls who want to wreck the place at the expense of Beehaw users, who specifically joined in order to have a community of nice people to hang out with.
the vibe here on kbin is I think very similar to what you might find on more serious subreddits or on something like hacker news. we're interested in content, discussion, etc. but there's not really overt trolling. I rarely see "shitposting" and other stuff as well. If you think "nerds who wanna talk about stuff and share news/content" you've got the right gist. I don't really think anyone I've seen here would go out of there way to cause problems. but kbin does have open signups (not invite).
idk what the mindset is for lemmy, beehaw, and the rest of the fediverse, but I think due to the long downtime for federation here on kbin there's this vibe of "we have kbin stuff, and then we have stuff from those other guys" It's to the point where someone quickly made a script to be able to easily see where someone is posting from.
In that regard, it's always very obvious to me when I'm among beehaw users and in beehaw communities. same for when I'm in lemmy spaces, or kbin spaces. whereas I think lemmy users may not know or care about that distinction. Though this might just be my own musing and others aren't thinking like that haha.
Really? The tone in Beehaw is obvious yeah, but I thought the tone for kbin and lemmy was slightly similar -- unless things really changed in the few days when federation was down (which is possible)
I wasn't here before kbin's federation went down, but rather joined during that time with most everyone else. I do think the tone and "feel" between kbin and lemmy is similar for sure, and I think a lot of that is probably due to mutual ex-reddit culture. but while federation was down there was a lot of kbin users saying things like "it's a bit better like this because we build up a kbin culture, and understand things better" and "we can build up kbin communities so we're less reliant on other instances".
I think lemmy just ended up with the "everything reddit" culture, while kbin ended up with a more reserved technical reddit culture. Though that might just be my perspective (and not shared with others). But I can understand why beehaw defederated with lemmy and not kbin. even though it kinda feels like we're next lol.
Yeah, I do wonder if Beehaw is just block happy. I am scared of clicking on their list of banned instances (like if it's really shitty stuff that no sane human can look at), but they have blocked almost 400 instances.
They haven't blocked the main Lemmy one though. I'm guessing the main Lemmy instance has gotten better with the reddit migration.
What they did was the following : they defederated with Top 2 and Top 4 from what I understand (2 of the top 5).
For, reference Lemmy.ml has 35k users, Lemmy.world around 20-25k ish, shitjustworks 10k, beehaw 10k. Then theres a lot of small lemmy instances beehaw hasn't banned which go from a few hundred to a few thousand. The numbers might be slightly off since the user count tools are having issues on the lemmy side of things.
I feel like KBin is one of those "we only show our magazines by default, but if you're an advanced user or you want to explore the fediverse a bit more, we have that option too, and you can even subscribe to federated communities/magazines" type of sites in the fediverse.
nope. that was the case for a while, when the federation wasn't working right. but now it pretty openly shows threads from across the fediverse.
Oh? What makes beehaw users different and recognizable?
beehaw stands out among the lemmy instances because of the unique culture.
so idk how things work over on the lemmy instances and beehaw, but here when we get threads from other sites, the logo of the site is shown pretty blatantly. likewise the url is clearly visible. In beehaw's case, just looking around there it seems pretty strictly moderated with a certain cultural/style emphasis. Maybe not obvious at first glance, but reading some of the ethos pages makes it clear.
It's a very... "tumblr" vibe. So beehaw defederating from lemmy.world isn't really a surprise.
Like to me the different instances have different "feels" to them. and on kbin they're clearly marked so it's obvious. it's further emphasized as i said by the fact that we were isolated for a while.
The advantage Beehaw has is the way the communities are organized - so much neater than in other instances. Every community on there is a giant hub, making these communities more visible and active than what we see on lemmy.ml and lemmy.world, and to some extent kbin.
Well thats mostly the case because only the admins on Beehaw can open new communities.
Not to the degree what I'm used to. It's very minimal. It'll probably take a year or two before it's fully there, is my expectation.
It's not an easy thing to make and it doesn't have the highest priority generally. Reddit didn't even have automoderator for years.
there are already users over there asking this very question lol
You might be. Beehaw blocks the most places from what I have seen. And per the discussion on shitjustworks, it seems the mod tool they want is to allow their users to post on other instances but not let outside users post on theirs.
really? that's kinda yikes lol. like I can post on beehaw just fine from kbin, so I'm not quite sure that's the case? I think they just want to be able to moderate strictly and they've only got like 4 mods over there.