Oh, man, somebody actually thinks the "excellence" part of the curve isn't plagued by things like how much easier is to spot all the ways things can cause problems down the causality chain (guess what, when it's easy and natural to, for every action being considered, see 3 or more links down the chain of possible consequences, one always finds risks and negatives) and associated tendency for paralysis by analysis or simply the being quite abnormal compared to most people.
In my experience the perfect spot of the curve when it comes to felling good about oneself in this one human characteristic is to be what I call an "entry level genious" - a barelly into the genious IQ, just about intelligent enough to feel more intelligent than th majority of people one encounters but not so intelligent one is aware of the limits of intelligence and how little even genious adds to one's overall capabilities (and example of this would be Elon Musk), or in other words, on what is pretty much the peak Dunning-Krugger point of Intelligence.
(All the best salesperson types I've worked with were at that sweet-spot: intelligent enough to find it easier to outsmart most people and have high self-confidence but not enough to understand the potential problems and limitations of what they're selling)
Bro really said Elon Musk
Elon Musk is obviously such a genious that he was forced to buy Twitter. He tried to play it to his benefit and screwed himself over.
The green part only exists in a dreamer's mind, it's blue all the way
there's no such thing as two standard deviations
I understand the allure of grass being greener on other side but I think you're simply buying the image that salespeople selling/projecting.
It's not even expensive skill to learn: it takes few months of training to learn how to project "entry level genius" vibe but once you dig in there you'll see the edges of hologram.
If you think salespeople are actually successful ones, sales dept is always hiring 😉... I wonder why 😳
I'm thinking more Startup Founders and highly specialized Tech salespeople, rather than run-of-the-mill salespersons.
People with a grifter kind of personality is maybe a better way to describe the kind of people I mean.
The best do think of themselves as highly capable and competent because the best seller there is absolutelly believes in what they're pitching - it's smilar to how in Theatre, the best acting involves the actors literally feeling as if that situation was trully happenning to them.
IMHO the best way to deceive others is to first deceive yourself (though what I've seen more commonly done is avoiding knowing too much about something and in too much detail so that one is not even aware of the risks and pitfalls and only knows the positives) because of how amazingly truthfull that makes one sound.
I get what you're saying however ... what you're describing is simply advanced people skills i.e. learnable, practicable ways to interact with others -- yes, even loose moral core is part of it
If you think that this is actually what drives excellence, I urge you to take volunteer gig at charity nonprofit where they will teach you how to properly harass people into giving you money
I never said it was excellence, I said it was being a good salesman: never stated that I think salesmanship is some kind of great human quality, or that it is at all a quality or even that it has any kind of moral value positive or negative.
It was never a value statement about salesmanship as a human practice, it was simply an observation about how in my opinion human intelligence relates to proeficiency in that practice.
I think you unwittingly used the context of Society around you and what it tells you are great qualities, to fill the gaps in what I wrote and hence drew moral conclusions from it rather than from my statements which did not at all include a moral judgment.
Further, the possibility that I somehow "leaked" my opinion on it from a moral standpoint is inconsistent with how, personally, I don't even have a positive opinion about salesmanship in moral terms, though I recognize the rewards it can bring in present day society to be good at it and appreciate a good salesman with the same kind moral-detached respect for expertise as I would appreciate a good conman or a good thief - whether one agrees or disagrees with that kind of job, one cannot but appreciate the smooth elegance of mastery in a complex domain. I can hardly "leak" a positive moral opinion when my opinion on that practice is neutral or slightly below neutral.
(Also, I couldn't care less about what present day Society tells us are great human qualities, except perhaps that, having to live in it, I have to navigate that crap just like everybody else).
Oh, man, somebody actually thinks the "excellence" part of the curve isn't plagued by things like how much easier is to spot all the ways things can cause problems down the causality chain (guess what, when it's easy and natural to, for every action being considered, see 3 or more links down the chain of possible consequences, one always finds risks and negatives) and associated tendency for paralysis by analysis or simply the being quite abnormal compared to most people.
In my experience the perfect spot of the curve when it comes to felling good about oneself in this one human characteristic is to be what I call an "entry level genious" - a barelly into the genious IQ, just about intelligent enough to feel more intelligent than th majority of people one encounters but not so intelligent one is aware of the limits of intelligence and how little even genious adds to one's overall capabilities (and example of this would be Elon Musk), or in other words, on what is pretty much the peak Dunning-Krugger point of Intelligence.
(All the best salesperson types I've worked with were at that sweet-spot: intelligent enough to find it easier to outsmart most people and have high self-confidence but not enough to understand the potential problems and limitations of what they're selling)
Bro really said Elon Musk
Elon Musk is obviously such a genious that he was forced to buy Twitter. He tried to play it to his benefit and screwed himself over.
The green part only exists in a dreamer's mind, it's blue all the way
I understand the allure of grass being greener on other side but I think you're simply buying the image that salespeople selling/projecting.
It's not even expensive skill to learn: it takes few months of training to learn how to project "entry level genius" vibe but once you dig in there you'll see the edges of hologram.
If you think salespeople are actually successful ones, sales dept is always hiring 😉... I wonder why 😳
I'm thinking more Startup Founders and highly specialized Tech salespeople, rather than run-of-the-mill salespersons.
People with a grifter kind of personality is maybe a better way to describe the kind of people I mean.
The best do think of themselves as highly capable and competent because the best seller there is absolutelly believes in what they're pitching - it's smilar to how in Theatre, the best acting involves the actors literally feeling as if that situation was trully happenning to them.
IMHO the best way to deceive others is to first deceive yourself (though what I've seen more commonly done is avoiding knowing too much about something and in too much detail so that one is not even aware of the risks and pitfalls and only knows the positives) because of how amazingly truthfull that makes one sound.
I get what you're saying however ... what you're describing is simply advanced people skills i.e. learnable, practicable ways to interact with others -- yes, even loose moral core is part of it
If you think that this is actually what drives excellence, I urge you to take volunteer gig at charity nonprofit where they will teach you how to properly harass people into giving you money
I never said it was excellence, I said it was being a good salesman: never stated that I think salesmanship is some kind of great human quality, or that it is at all a quality or even that it has any kind of moral value positive or negative.
It was never a value statement about salesmanship as a human practice, it was simply an observation about how in my opinion human intelligence relates to proeficiency in that practice.
I think you unwittingly used the context of Society around you and what it tells you are great qualities, to fill the gaps in what I wrote and hence drew moral conclusions from it rather than from my statements which did not at all include a moral judgment.
Further, the possibility that I somehow "leaked" my opinion on it from a moral standpoint is inconsistent with how, personally, I don't even have a positive opinion about salesmanship in moral terms, though I recognize the rewards it can bring in present day society to be good at it and appreciate a good salesman with the same kind moral-detached respect for expertise as I would appreciate a good conman or a good thief - whether one agrees or disagrees with that kind of job, one cannot but appreciate the smooth elegance of mastery in a complex domain. I can hardly "leak" a positive moral opinion when my opinion on that practice is neutral or slightly below neutral.
(Also, I couldn't care less about what present day Society tells us are great human qualities, except perhaps that, having to live in it, I have to navigate that crap just like everybody else).