But this kind of thing is ripe for unintended consequences at best and flat out bad data at worst.
When I drive I put my phone in the center so I can see the map. If me and my passenger's phones are in the center, who is marked as driving when I get into an accident?
From there, why stop at one phone? Let's put several phones in the back seat, including mine. Hell, let's have a burner phone that I use only for driving that has a throw away account. Or let's go back to old fashioned maps and GPS devices while our phones are turned off. Meanwhile, at home, I've spun up a virtual device where it is very peacefully driving a route. Perfectly. Then I have another virtual device that is driving a different route on the other side of the world driving erratically.
These companies are forgetting that the data from phones are data from devices, not people. If you're going to spy on me, I'm going to make you fucking earn it.
"when i drive i put my phone in the center"
that's my point. Or a holder of some kind.
as opposed to passengers who basically never put their phones in the center console.
especially for a taxi or uber. That would be insane.
again: the question is: are you a driver or a passenger? And I'm saying that that distinction is very plausible to make.
if your sole goal is to make it harder to tell in an accident, sure. This is just sensor data, not clairvoyance.
My friend keeps her phone in a purse, which she puts on the floor of the passenger side whether she is driving or a passenger sitting shotgun. It’s always in the same place. When we take Ubers she usually sits in the middle so she can see, and puts the purse between her feet. Thus her phone is almost never on her person in the car.
I suspect this is true for a lot of people who use purses or other bags as every day carry. Or perhaps it’s actually in the passenger seat, lots of people use that for bags when driving solo.
So while it may be true for you that your phone is on you while a passenger, that’s a ton of people it isn’t true for at all, who would then be in the “bad data” camp.
right, but your friend doesn't put their purse in back seat if they're sitting in the front, or visa versa, right?
no person driving should have their phone on them when they're driving, so it's an easy spot to exclude. The rest is logic, sensors and probability.
Well now you are just moving the goalposts with that “does she put it in the back” nonsense.
Again, her purse is always in the same spot when she’s either driving or the passenger sitting shotgun. How are they going to sort out her data when it’s almost always in the same spot?
And the same for anyone else with that habit. Or who uses the passenger seat to hold their bag.
no moving of goalposts.
the topic is "driver or not", nothing more.
there are four options to sit in, generally speaking.
you're saying both people in the front have the same gyro data. That's fine; my point is she's not in the back - or if she is, such as in a taxi or uber (which is the original situation) - it's detectable.
do you remember when phones started automatically remembering where you parked? they did that by knowing a) your speed changing b) the pedometer counting (among other things). My point is: this isn't as impossible as you and others seem to claim. That's it.
Why wouldn't I have my phone on me while driving? Where else would it be?
in a phone holder attached to your windscreen or vent.
Why? What do I need a phone for while driving, that shit is distracting.
gps nav, music, etc.etc.
GPS Nav: that is a feature a ton of cars have. Else, reading signs and basic orientation is a godsent.
Music: Why do I need my phone out where it can distract me, when bluetooth works fine from my pocket. And if a car doesn't have bluetooth radio works fine.
I think you just like texting while driving.
that's great if you never need to pause or skip tracks.
So if I throw my phone on the passenger seat whenever I'm not using my GPS, I must never be driving!
I'm not sure what you're saying, but it sounds like the opposite of what I am, and what's the opposite of what's legal in most places.
It's illegal to put my phone on the passenger seat??? Please, show me what law is be violated, because that sounds utterly ridiculous.
But the point I'm making is that you can't make an assumption on who is driving based on where the phone physically is. I could be a passenger or my phone could be on the passenger seat or just sitting in the center console while I drive. I could be a passenger and my driving friend is using my phone for GPS on the dash.
There are way too many confounding variables to begin making guesses on driver based on phone sensor readings.
in some parts of the world, it is, yes. And they put up cameras to catch and fine people for it. Ridiculous or not. 🤷♂️
two different things: yes, you can make a plausible determination of a person's position in a car based on sensors. yes, you can also not have enough data to make that determination.
It's absolutely possible with things like usage and gyroscopic sensors. You want to say software could never figure it out, I'll leave you to it. It's high school level physics.
But this kind of thing is ripe for unintended consequences at best and flat out bad data at worst.
When I drive I put my phone in the center so I can see the map. If me and my passenger's phones are in the center, who is marked as driving when I get into an accident?
From there, why stop at one phone? Let's put several phones in the back seat, including mine. Hell, let's have a burner phone that I use only for driving that has a throw away account. Or let's go back to old fashioned maps and GPS devices while our phones are turned off. Meanwhile, at home, I've spun up a virtual device where it is very peacefully driving a route. Perfectly. Then I have another virtual device that is driving a different route on the other side of the world driving erratically.
These companies are forgetting that the data from phones are data from devices, not people. If you're going to spy on me, I'm going to make you fucking earn it.
that's my point. Or a holder of some kind.
as opposed to passengers who basically never put their phones in the center console.
especially for a taxi or uber. That would be insane.
again: the question is: are you a driver or a passenger? And I'm saying that that distinction is very plausible to make.
if your sole goal is to make it harder to tell in an accident, sure. This is just sensor data, not clairvoyance.
My friend keeps her phone in a purse, which she puts on the floor of the passenger side whether she is driving or a passenger sitting shotgun. It’s always in the same place. When we take Ubers she usually sits in the middle so she can see, and puts the purse between her feet. Thus her phone is almost never on her person in the car.
I suspect this is true for a lot of people who use purses or other bags as every day carry. Or perhaps it’s actually in the passenger seat, lots of people use that for bags when driving solo.
So while it may be true for you that your phone is on you while a passenger, that’s a ton of people it isn’t true for at all, who would then be in the “bad data” camp.
right, but your friend doesn't put their purse in back seat if they're sitting in the front, or visa versa, right?
no person driving should have their phone on them when they're driving, so it's an easy spot to exclude. The rest is logic, sensors and probability.
Well now you are just moving the goalposts with that “does she put it in the back” nonsense.
Again, her purse is always in the same spot when she’s either driving or the passenger sitting shotgun. How are they going to sort out her data when it’s almost always in the same spot?
And the same for anyone else with that habit. Or who uses the passenger seat to hold their bag.
no moving of goalposts.
the topic is "driver or not", nothing more.
there are four options to sit in, generally speaking.
you're saying both people in the front have the same gyro data. That's fine; my point is she's not in the back - or if she is, such as in a taxi or uber (which is the original situation) - it's detectable.
do you remember when phones started automatically remembering where you parked? they did that by knowing a) your speed changing b) the pedometer counting (among other things). My point is: this isn't as impossible as you and others seem to claim. That's it.
Why wouldn't I have my phone on me while driving? Where else would it be?
in a phone holder attached to your windscreen or vent.
Why? What do I need a phone for while driving, that shit is distracting.
gps nav, music, etc.etc.
GPS Nav: that is a feature a ton of cars have. Else, reading signs and basic orientation is a godsent.
Music: Why do I need my phone out where it can distract me, when bluetooth works fine from my pocket. And if a car doesn't have bluetooth radio works fine.
I think you just like texting while driving.
that's great if you never need to pause or skip tracks.
So if I throw my phone on the passenger seat whenever I'm not using my GPS, I must never be driving!
I'm not sure what you're saying, but it sounds like the opposite of what I am, and what's the opposite of what's legal in most places.
It's illegal to put my phone on the passenger seat??? Please, show me what law is be violated, because that sounds utterly ridiculous.
But the point I'm making is that you can't make an assumption on who is driving based on where the phone physically is. I could be a passenger or my phone could be on the passenger seat or just sitting in the center console while I drive. I could be a passenger and my driving friend is using my phone for GPS on the dash.
There are way too many confounding variables to begin making guesses on driver based on phone sensor readings.
in some parts of the world, it is, yes. And they put up cameras to catch and fine people for it. Ridiculous or not. 🤷♂️
two different things: yes, you can make a plausible determination of a person's position in a car based on sensors. yes, you can also not have enough data to make that determination.
It's absolutely possible with things like usage and gyroscopic sensors. You want to say software could never figure it out, I'll leave you to it. It's high school level physics.