Can you name another example where bigotry against a traditionally marginalized minority is virtually always claimed to be coming from that minority?
I don't care to sit here all day thinking about it and I'm not sure I agree with that characterization anyway, it seems like you're just looking for a fight honestly.
Do you understand what I'm saying though, are you familiar with the phrase? Another is "when you point the finger at someone you have three pointed back at you." It's a fairly common bit of folk wisdom.
I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree with your analogy where you equate suggesting all homophobes are secretly gay with accusing someone of farting.
How about "when you point the finger at someone you have three pointed back at you" is that better?
If you're in a room full of people, and you "lose" something, the person that helps look for it the most, the one who won't give up and is very curious about where your item "went" is the thief.
And yet you can't think of one other marginalized group of people where every time a finger is pointed at them, people claim the person doing the pointing is part of that group.
Curious that you don't find that problematic despite having no other examples.
Self-hate is a funny thing.
I wonder if that's a "law" yet ala Goodwin, Winslow, Murphy, etc. "The hate a person has for a group is proportionate to the amount of "denied/repressed belonging" that same person has to said group."
See, this sounds like you're saying queer people are the cause of homophobia, which is exactly what my point was.
That's not my intention and I'm sorry you took it that way.
I believe that was not your intention, but that is what makes it so problematic. When you suggest that most or all homophobes are queer, you're suggesting that homophobia is an internal problem, not an external one, even if you don't realize that's what you're doing. Because the inference to be made there is that if you really hate queer people, you can't be cishet.
you’re suggesting that homophobia is an internal problem,
I believe homophobia (and basically all other hate) is mostly an internal (mental) problem, you don't?
the inference to be made there is that if you really hate queer people, you can't be cishet.
Ah I get it now, I guess I disagree with that inference but I see how it follows. More honestly I would say that most people aren't 100% straight/cishet and sexual fluidity is extremely common (though we're only becoming aware of it now) so the inference would be correct and most people wouldn't be homophobic.
Internal as in only involving queer people.
The point is it gives any cishet bigot an excuse to be homophobic because they aren't queer so it's okay. It's not bigotry.
The point is it gives any cishet bigot an excuse to be homophobic because they aren’t queer
If we're following it logically, they hate themselves at least in part because they're queer; it's self-hatred but they can be a self-hating bigot, they're not mutually exclusive.
Again, this suggests that you cannot be cishet and bigoted against queer people. That the only people bigoted against queer people are themselves queer. Therefore anything someone who is cishet says about queer people no matter how offensive cannot be homophobic by virtue of having been said by a cishet person.
That's just basic extrapolation from such reasoning.
Can you name another example where bigotry against a traditionally marginalized minority is virtually always claimed to be coming from that minority?
I don't care to sit here all day thinking about it and I'm not sure I agree with that characterization anyway, it seems like you're just looking for a fight honestly.
Do you understand what I'm saying though, are you familiar with the phrase? Another is "when you point the finger at someone you have three pointed back at you." It's a fairly common bit of folk wisdom.
I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree with your analogy where you equate suggesting all homophobes are secretly gay with accusing someone of farting.
How about "when you point the finger at someone you have three pointed back at you" is that better?
If you're in a room full of people, and you "lose" something, the person that helps look for it the most, the one who won't give up and is very curious about where your item "went" is the thief.
And yet you can't think of one other marginalized group of people where every time a finger is pointed at them, people claim the person doing the pointing is part of that group.
Curious that you don't find that problematic despite having no other examples.
Self-hate is a funny thing.
I wonder if that's a "law" yet ala Goodwin, Winslow, Murphy, etc. "The hate a person has for a group is proportionate to the amount of "denied/repressed belonging" that same person has to said group."
See, this sounds like you're saying queer people are the cause of homophobia, which is exactly what my point was.
That's not my intention and I'm sorry you took it that way.
I believe that was not your intention, but that is what makes it so problematic. When you suggest that most or all homophobes are queer, you're suggesting that homophobia is an internal problem, not an external one, even if you don't realize that's what you're doing. Because the inference to be made there is that if you really hate queer people, you can't be cishet.
I believe homophobia (and basically all other hate) is mostly an internal (mental) problem, you don't?
Ah I get it now, I guess I disagree with that inference but I see how it follows. More honestly I would say that most people aren't 100% straight/cishet and sexual fluidity is extremely common (though we're only becoming aware of it now) so the inference would be correct and most people wouldn't be homophobic.
Internal as in only involving queer people.
The point is it gives any cishet bigot an excuse to be homophobic because they aren't queer so it's okay. It's not bigotry.
If we're following it logically, they hate themselves at least in part because they're queer; it's self-hatred but they can be a self-hating bigot, they're not mutually exclusive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internalized_oppression
Again, this suggests that you cannot be cishet and bigoted against queer people. That the only people bigoted against queer people are themselves queer. Therefore anything someone who is cishet says about queer people no matter how offensive cannot be homophobic by virtue of having been said by a cishet person.
That's just basic extrapolation from such reasoning.