Why lemmy.world should not defederate from beehaw.org.
What defederating would mean:
- We won't see beehaw.org posts/comments on other instances.
Pros:
- There is less confusion, you can't respond to a beehaw.org user, thinking they will be able to see your response when in reality they cannot.
Cons:
- We won't be able to see any beehaw.org comments/posts on other instances, so we will miss out on some comment threads and posts. It could be good to be able to see them and interact with the other users there even though beehaw.org users won't see any of our content.
Summary
Overall, I think it is better not to defederate, but simply unsubscribe from all of their communities (and as we no longer get posts from their instance, with time these will cease to appear on our 'front page').
beehaw.org users already can't see our posts/comments anywhere so it's not like defederating would change their experience in any way, so it wouldn't really be retaliation and would just limit the content available to lemmy.world users.
What do you think?
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They said they couldn't deal with the level of abuse and spam that came from lemmy.world users. They have a much more restrictive content policy and smaller, centralised moderation team than most other instances which exacerbated the problem.
What's dumb is that if someone wanted to troll them they could just make an account on any number of smaller instances that they federate with. I mean, eventually they will have to be completely siloed off to prevent outside trolling.
Yeah, I suspect they will move to a whitelist the moment that functionality becomes available. Or just defederate entirely from everything and become a walled garden.
A whitelisting feature already exists.
thats pretty unfair, theres no reason to think that they intend on cutting themselves off from the fednet entirely
according to them this is a temporary measure until they have better tools for moderation, more mods or until things have calmed down a bit, I dont see any reason to question that
I hope they ran this defederation thing by their users first.
They did not. It was just dumped on everyone earlier today
I'm all for protecting users from bigoted assholes, but I would be very unhappy as one of the users they aim to protect due to feeling as tho they believe they know how to act in the best interest of their users, when they don't give their community a seat at the grown-ups' table to make the decision.
I'd rather not be part of an instance in which drastic, sweeping actions are taken without consideration or feedback from their userbase. I'm not even arguing that they are wrong in doing what they did; just that I wouldn't appreciate being treated like they know what's best for me. Feels like being treated like a child.
I don't want to be part of an instance in which I'll suddenly lose access to content across Lemmy because it's 'in my best interest' according to internet strangers.
With that said, hopefully we stop accruing bigoted assholes here, we get better mod tools, and things can be refederated.
I had an account on beehaw and once I saw the post I immediately created a new account on lemmy.world for the exact reason you described. I don't want to be cut off or told what I can and can't see.
So I have an account on beehaw and pointed this out earlier to the admins. Got snapped at because how dare I try and say what they will do in the future. I was also told if they were going to defederate from everyone they already would have. Didn't really get a response as to what they would do once people start to trolling from other instances. They don't think it'll be a problem from what I gathered
If anything this is just going to make them an even larger target for trolling. I don't have a good solution for what they should do. But it seems that fediverse is antithetical to their goals.
I know. It's not hard to lie your way into their instance if you really wanted to or one that has criteria to join. I really don't think they know what they got themselves into with this decision because you're right, they put a huge target on their backs.
That was my thought as well. Seems like a bad idea this early in the social experiment.
Well, we're the new ones to the social experiment, they were here first :) Disappointing decision though.
That's fair. Need to check my reddit privilege lol.
they could, but in practice it would never amount to the level of trolling and toxicity they are receiving from .world and justworks
folks are taking this too seriously imo
Tbh, that's kinda hard to believe. I have seen zero malicious activity in my 4 days here. Maybe their standards are just higher than mine, not sure that's a good thing in this case but whatever. Damn that sucks, beehaw had some good stuff.
From what I saw on their post, it seems there are bad faith actors registering in lemmy.world just to harass beehaw.org.
Sigh.
Who tf comes online just to troll "beehaw" some obscure instance on an obscure platform? That's crazy to me lol.
Yeah, some people are really werid.
I mean, there are trolls on Reddit to be fair, it's not terribly surprising that if a lot of Reddit users move to some place, a bunch of trolls will come with, either because they too don't like reddit's changes, or because they see new communities to mess with. And I can imagine that, if someone is a troll and gets enjoyment out of bothering people and causing anger, that a community that is pretty restrictive in it's rules and tries to maintain a "calm" and "safe" sort of vibe is probably going to be a more satisfying target?
Beyond that, I do think I recall seeing one of the beehaw admins saying something about not wanting theirs to be the place all the redditors move to, because they don't want keeping the community run and moderated to be a full time thing and because they want quality over quantity, in terms of their community. If they feel like they're reaching the limit of how big a community they can comfortably handle and dont want it getting much bigger, then a controversial move like this that might lose them some users isn't going to be a problem for them.
I'm not saying I like this move, I don't personally have any real stake in it obviously not being hosted on either instance involved but I worry that fragmentation like this while people are starting to really look into the platform as a whole isn't a great look for lemmy, -but I do get where they are coming from.
That's fair. I don't really have a horse in the race, just curious about the whole situation.
Alt-righters and 4-chan users. They often feel justified thru their delusions and rationalizations.
"Who tf are these people?" Is a question I find myself asking quite often lol.
Same, I've found the attitude really positive here. It reminds me of early Reddit in like 2008.
Yea I'm having quality discussions, the kind that get zero traction on reddit.
Exactly. Relevant discussion has continued to decline and be suppressed by stupid memes and puns. Can barely find any relevant discussion in comments anymore.
On reddit, it wouldn't be unusual that someone would talk shit to me for having a thought-out, long reply to someone.
It feels like 60% of the users are pissy teenagers spreading anti-intellectualism and another 30% are bots. Aside from a specific few niche subreddits, I don't miss reddit at all...
One sub I was subbed to literally turned into memes, where even the comments were just links to memes and people carrying out full length discussions that way.
I sort of missed the meme culture period. And I always enjoyed writing, so it's pretty nice here.
I went and checked reddit for first time today since the 11th and I left right away.
from what i understand you will still be able to see their content, they just wont be able to see content from lemmy.world or shitjustworks
Yea same. Well we can still interact with each other on their posts I suppose 🤷
you can interact with me on their posts, however they will not see your comments ik pretty sure
Just like kbin, on beehaw the communities are fixed, and only admins can create communities, right?
Yep. It has the benefit that it concentrates the userbase in the existing communities. But it also creates a really static site and is at more risk of moderator abuse.
If reddit taught me anything, it's a question of when; not if.
here on kbin users can create communities freely. on beehaw, they cannot.
Anyone can make a magazine on kbin.
What's even the point then? I guess it's either Reddit or no reddit.