Israel may be an ethnostate, but the actions of its leadership are not representative of the Jewish population as a whole. That is to say, stop disingenuously conflating criticism of a genocidal government with antisemitism.
An 'ethnostate' significantly more ethnically and religiously diverse than any country in Europe, the Middle East or Asia.
Japan is 99% ethnic Yamato Japanese. Is Japan an ethnostate? And should they be criticised for this?
73% of Israelis are Jews, more than half of which are Middle Eastern (Mizrahi) Jews, i.e. zero connection to Europe. The other 27% of Israeli citizens are usually Arabs who are either Muslim, Christian, Druze, Bedouin, Circassians, Baha’i, Armenians, Samaritans, etc. They have the same civil, legal, political and religious rights as Jewish Israelis. They’re represented at every level of government, including in the parliament with an explicitly Arabist political party that has once served in a coalition government.
And it’s… Israel that’s the ‘ethnostate’. Got it.
Accusing Jews of being unable to stop themselves from murdering children is unambiguous antisemitism with a long history dating back to the Middle Ages.
It's evident that you're cherry-picking tangential details to argue against, so let me say this in unambiguous terms:
Accusing Jews of being unable to stop themselves from murdering children is unambiguous antisemitism with a long history dating back to the Middle Ages.
People here are not accusing Jews of doing anything. We aren't using "Israel" as a stand-in or dogwhisle for ethnically Jewish people or the Jewish religion.
People are accusing the government of Israel of being unwilling to refrain from committing war crimes.
Yes, I'm sure it's a complete coincidence that Israel alone among all the countries in the world, including Syria (where Assad slaughtered more than half a million Syrians), China (engaged in the genocide of the Uyghurs) and Azerbaijan (who literally ethnically cleansed Nagorno-Karabakh of Armenians just last year), is the only one accused of being bloodthirsty child-murderers who regard non-Jewish children as less than human.
Couldn't be that a key theme of antisemitism over 2,000 years retains a deep hold on people's imaginations and biases, influencing their views today even if they aren't fully cognisant of, could it?
Nah. It's just a coincidence that it's only the Jewish state accused of this.
I'm sorry you must have slept through the last decade?
Those accusations were absolutely there. They just weren't a conversation because everyone agreed. Why are you defending a genocidal regime?
If I believed that Israel was a genocidal "regime" (by which you mean democratic government) I wouldn't be defending it.
So you're willing to link to the blood libel Wikipedia page but you deny the existence of this genocide. I guess "Never Again" had an asterisk?
Let me give you the full sentence:
"Never again will the Jewish people put their safety and security in the hands of non-Jews."
Non-Jews were given a test with the Holocaust and we comprehensively failed.
From now on, the Jewish people will only ever trust themselves to protect them. Rightly so, in my view.
And yes, I do deny there's a genocide in Gaza. If they wanted to just eradicate them then this war would have been over many months ago.
Yeah you're going to need to source that. Never Again is a slogan referring to the Holocaust. At best some people say it means just for Jews, but I think we can all agree genocide is bad, right?
I think we can all agree that the Jews and only the Jews have the right to determine what that phrase, which they coined, meant to them.
By which you must mean only the super hardcore Zionists right? Because I'm pretty sure these guys disagree with your definition. Pretty sure Stefanie disagrees. Oh look, more disagreement.
Cherry picking hardliner writing to try and coopt a common phrase isn't very cool. Especially if you're using it to deny a genocide.
You can always find fringe groups. It's a bit pathetic to so openly signal that you know that's what you're doing. You've picked massively marginal, tiny and unimportant groups. It's really embarrassing for you man. I mean, really? Boston Review? C'mon man, grow up.
How many Jewish groups share your opinion that the Jews alone, among all the peoples of the world, have no right to national self-determination?
And I swear to fucking God if you add a Naturei Karta link, a group of less than 2,000 members globally, you will have problems.
It's not Blood Libel if the actual government is doing it.
Antisemites have always believed this. This isn't new. The people who claimed Jews were intent on slaughtering non-Jewish children because they saw them as sub-human did also believe that wholeheartedly. It wasn't just a ruse.
Everyone rational has always believed this. The government of Israel is not the Jewish people any more than the government of ISIS was representative of Muslims.
Everyone rational has always believed this.
By openly identifying your endorsement of an ancient and false antisemitic trope, you've invalidated your right to have any opinion about anything.
Bye.
You can wail and gnash your teeth all you want. The government of Israel will never represent Judaism.
Did you mean to reply to my comment? Not sure how that's relevant.
Anyway, you endorse a 1,500 year old antisemitic conspiracy theory, so I'm not sure why you think you deserve to be treated with respect or dignity.
If saying the government of Israel is not all of Judaism is blood libel then everything is blood libel and the label is meaningless.
Just to be clear then:
Are you claiming that the Jewish governing party, made up of Jewish individuals, in the Jewish State (Israel) are incapable of holding back their bloodlust to slaughter non-Jewish children on the basis that they see them as lesser than Jewish children?
Take a moment. Think about it. Because we both know that this is in fact what you have been claiming. And maybe you want to walk that back, and self-reflect, and think whether maybe you've gone wrong at some point in your justifiable attempt to seek justice for oppressed peoples.
At the point they're publicly calling those kids names while bombing them... Yes it's pretty clear they believe Palestinians are subhuman. And if that's blood libel then so is saying Hitler believed Jews to be sub human
You cannot have it both ways. You cannot commit genocide and tell the world they're the racists because they called you out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel
Israel may be an ethnostate, but the actions of its leadership are not representative of the Jewish population as a whole. That is to say, stop disingenuously conflating criticism of a genocidal government with antisemitism.
An 'ethnostate' significantly more ethnically and religiously diverse than any country in Europe, the Middle East or Asia.
Japan is 99% ethnic Yamato Japanese. Is Japan an ethnostate? And should they be criticised for this?
73% of Israelis are Jews, more than half of which are Middle Eastern (Mizrahi) Jews, i.e. zero connection to Europe. The other 27% of Israeli citizens are usually Arabs who are either Muslim, Christian, Druze, Bedouin, Circassians, Baha’i, Armenians, Samaritans, etc. They have the same civil, legal, political and religious rights as Jewish Israelis. They’re represented at every level of government, including in the parliament with an explicitly Arabist political party that has once served in a coalition government.
And it’s… Israel that’s the ‘ethnostate’. Got it.
Accusing Jews of being unable to stop themselves from murdering children is unambiguous antisemitism with a long history dating back to the Middle Ages.
It's evident that you're cherry-picking tangential details to argue against, so let me say this in unambiguous terms:
People here are not accusing Jews of doing anything. We aren't using "Israel" as a stand-in or dogwhisle for ethnically Jewish people or the Jewish religion.
People are accusing the government of Israel of being unwilling to refrain from committing war crimes.
Yes, I'm sure it's a complete coincidence that Israel alone among all the countries in the world, including Syria (where Assad slaughtered more than half a million Syrians), China (engaged in the genocide of the Uyghurs) and Azerbaijan (who literally ethnically cleansed Nagorno-Karabakh of Armenians just last year), is the only one accused of being bloodthirsty child-murderers who regard non-Jewish children as less than human.
Couldn't be that a key theme of antisemitism over 2,000 years retains a deep hold on people's imaginations and biases, influencing their views today even if they aren't fully cognisant of, could it?
Nah. It's just a coincidence that it's only the Jewish state accused of this.
I'm sorry you must have slept through the last decade?
Those accusations were absolutely there. They just weren't a conversation because everyone agreed. Why are you defending a genocidal regime?
If I believed that Israel was a genocidal "regime" (by which you mean democratic government) I wouldn't be defending it.
So you're willing to link to the blood libel Wikipedia page but you deny the existence of this genocide. I guess "Never Again" had an asterisk?
Let me give you the full sentence:
"Never again will the Jewish people put their safety and security in the hands of non-Jews."
Non-Jews were given a test with the Holocaust and we comprehensively failed.
From now on, the Jewish people will only ever trust themselves to protect them. Rightly so, in my view.
And yes, I do deny there's a genocide in Gaza. If they wanted to just eradicate them then this war would have been over many months ago.
Yeah you're going to need to source that. Never Again is a slogan referring to the Holocaust. At best some people say it means just for Jews, but I think we can all agree genocide is bad, right?
I think we can all agree that the Jews and only the Jews have the right to determine what that phrase, which they coined, meant to them.
By which you must mean only the super hardcore Zionists right? Because I'm pretty sure these guys disagree with your definition. Pretty sure Stefanie disagrees. Oh look, more disagreement.
Cherry picking hardliner writing to try and coopt a common phrase isn't very cool. Especially if you're using it to deny a genocide.
You can always find fringe groups. It's a bit pathetic to so openly signal that you know that's what you're doing. You've picked massively marginal, tiny and unimportant groups. It's really embarrassing for you man. I mean, really? Boston Review? C'mon man, grow up.
How many Jewish groups share your opinion that the Jews alone, among all the peoples of the world, have no right to national self-determination?
And I swear to fucking God if you add a Naturei Karta link, a group of less than 2,000 members globally, you will have problems.
It's not Blood Libel if the actual government is doing it.
Antisemites have always believed this. This isn't new. The people who claimed Jews were intent on slaughtering non-Jewish children because they saw them as sub-human did also believe that wholeheartedly. It wasn't just a ruse.
Everyone rational has always believed this. The government of Israel is not the Jewish people any more than the government of ISIS was representative of Muslims.
By openly identifying your endorsement of an ancient and false antisemitic trope, you've invalidated your right to have any opinion about anything.
Bye.
You can wail and gnash your teeth all you want. The government of Israel will never represent Judaism.
Did you mean to reply to my comment? Not sure how that's relevant.
Anyway, you endorse a 1,500 year old antisemitic conspiracy theory, so I'm not sure why you think you deserve to be treated with respect or dignity.
If saying the government of Israel is not all of Judaism is blood libel then everything is blood libel and the label is meaningless.
Just to be clear then:
Are you claiming that the Jewish governing party, made up of Jewish individuals, in the Jewish State (Israel) are incapable of holding back their bloodlust to slaughter non-Jewish children on the basis that they see them as lesser than Jewish children?
Take a moment. Think about it. Because we both know that this is in fact what you have been claiming. And maybe you want to walk that back, and self-reflect, and think whether maybe you've gone wrong at some point in your justifiable attempt to seek justice for oppressed peoples.
At the point they're publicly calling those kids names while bombing them... Yes it's pretty clear they believe Palestinians are subhuman. And if that's blood libel then so is saying Hitler believed Jews to be sub human
You cannot have it both ways. You cannot commit genocide and tell the world they're the racists because they called you out.