No, I'm not saying I believe him, and yes I would like to see the evidence. It's pretty hard to draw conclusions without it.
And no I don't support genital inspections of 12 year old girls, and frankly don't think genital inspections are probably the best way to decide this. I think chromosomes and hormone levels are probably the best we have, and maybe there's just a class for athletes that fall outside the norms for their sex, similar to weight classes, because it's pretty clear that it does give a huge advantage.
But it's worth considering that maybe 12 year olds just shouldn't be in the Olympics in the first place.
Why not, if they're the best athletes in their country?
Also, it is far more complicated than you have any idea about. This person can explain it better than me:
Fair enough. But why not handle these exceptions in the rules then? If they don't confer a major competitive advantage then let them compete as the sex they feel like.
But I don't think we can draw this out to a full blown man who identifies as a woman so gets to compete against women. As usual, there is a sensible middle ground, and you have to get into the weeds a bit to sort it out.
Its like people who say only "pure capitalism" or "pure communism" is the best system, when in fact they are both garbage options, and the best is actually capitalism constrained by socialist policies like in Scandinavia. Yes, it's messy and complicated and hard to figure out, but that's pretty much always the case for coming to the best result.
The extremes on either side are almost always wrong.
What is a "full blown man" in your definition based on what I pasted above?
Also, who gets to decide that and what is the test?
Anyone who fails the tests for the other cases you list. The governing body of the sport gets to decide, and tests are decided by scientists and doctors.
The governing sport body in this case being the IOC. Who did decide. You just don't seem to care for their decision.
So make up your mind.
When did I say I didn't like their decision? I said I wanted more information.
Why? They decided she qualified. That should be enough.
For the same reason anyone wants to know anything. Because if anyone is to have an informed conversation about this, we need to know how they come to their conclusions. Their lack of transparency is a large part of why this controversy exists in the first place.
It's none of your business what's between their legs or in their chromosomes. This wouldn't even be a question for anyone who wasn't an athlete.
Yes because outside of athletics it doesn't really matter.
Which do you think would be more likely to discourage girls and women from participating in competitive sports, the chance that they might have to compete against a "real" woman or the requirement that they let everyone else know about their private medical records?
I don't think any of this matters until you get to college level or olympic level sports, at which point I highly doubt it would dissuade any would be competitor. But I do think if it got bad enough it could dissuade women. For example, if you just let men compete openly and without scrutiny in any women's athletics competition, which seems to be what some people are advocating for here.
No, I'm not saying I believe him, and yes I would like to see the evidence. It's pretty hard to draw conclusions without it.
And no I don't support genital inspections of 12 year old girls, and frankly don't think genital inspections are probably the best way to decide this. I think chromosomes and hormone levels are probably the best we have, and maybe there's just a class for athletes that fall outside the norms for their sex, similar to weight classes, because it's pretty clear that it does give a huge advantage.
But it's worth considering that maybe 12 year olds just shouldn't be in the Olympics in the first place.
Why not, if they're the best athletes in their country?
Also, it is far more complicated than you have any idea about. This person can explain it better than me:
Fair enough. But why not handle these exceptions in the rules then? If they don't confer a major competitive advantage then let them compete as the sex they feel like.
But I don't think we can draw this out to a full blown man who identifies as a woman so gets to compete against women. As usual, there is a sensible middle ground, and you have to get into the weeds a bit to sort it out.
Its like people who say only "pure capitalism" or "pure communism" is the best system, when in fact they are both garbage options, and the best is actually capitalism constrained by socialist policies like in Scandinavia. Yes, it's messy and complicated and hard to figure out, but that's pretty much always the case for coming to the best result.
The extremes on either side are almost always wrong.
What is a "full blown man" in your definition based on what I pasted above?
Also, who gets to decide that and what is the test?
Anyone who fails the tests for the other cases you list. The governing body of the sport gets to decide, and tests are decided by scientists and doctors.
The governing sport body in this case being the IOC. Who did decide. You just don't seem to care for their decision.
So make up your mind.
When did I say I didn't like their decision? I said I wanted more information.
Why? They decided she qualified. That should be enough.
For the same reason anyone wants to know anything. Because if anyone is to have an informed conversation about this, we need to know how they come to their conclusions. Their lack of transparency is a large part of why this controversy exists in the first place.
It's none of your business what's between their legs or in their chromosomes. This wouldn't even be a question for anyone who wasn't an athlete.
Yes because outside of athletics it doesn't really matter.
Which do you think would be more likely to discourage girls and women from participating in competitive sports, the chance that they might have to compete against a "real" woman or the requirement that they let everyone else know about their private medical records?
I don't think any of this matters until you get to college level or olympic level sports, at which point I highly doubt it would dissuade any would be competitor. But I do think if it got bad enough it could dissuade women. For example, if you just let men compete openly and without scrutiny in any women's athletics competition, which seems to be what some people are advocating for here.