Trump rolls out bonkers Harris plane conspiracy—but photographer disproves it
thedailybeast.com
Former President Donald Trump continued his obsession with crowd size on Sunday, claiming photos that showed a large crowd outside Vice President Kamala Harris’ Detroit rally last week were AI-generated. But one photographer who was in attendance confirmed to the Daily Beast that the images his camera captured were very real.
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The emphasis was mostly on Hillary, who ended up historically unpopular back in 2016.^[1] In fact books ^[2] have been written on the subject of why Clinton is so hated.
Biden - as president - is an unavoidable speaker and I said as much. I'll give you Bill is fairly popular, despite being associated with establishment democrats.
Umm, she won the popular vote. Everyone's well aware that conservatives hate her, and enough independents in enough swing states hated her to deny her the presidency, but that doesn't mean that she's an overall unpopular figure.
Every Democrat I know that voted for her, including myself, fucking hated her as a nominee. Do you honestly believe that Hillary Clinton is popular? That's like, demonstrably false
According to the primaries she was. In fact, according to the primaries she was nearly in the general for 2008. What's your data for demonstrably false? Certainly something more concrete than "me and my pals weren't pleased."
You'd have to be intentionally obtuse to believe she was likable. Just Google "Hillary Clinton likability", this isn't some revelation. I won't cite you a single source, because there's such an overwhelming multitude of sources, articles, polls, etc. if you are really at the point of "show me the data proving Hillary Clinton's unlikability", then you're already ignoring mountains of data and won't bat an eye at any source I send you. But feel free to Google it, it's been documented extensively over the last decade.
"There's a lot, people are saying." Okay, thank you.
whaddya know. you were proven wrong, it was insanely easy to prove, and you disappeared rather than admit you were wrong. I'm sure for years you'll be telling people how likable Hillary Clinton is. I bet you also love to rip on conservatives for being low-information, obstinate voters who won't change their minds when presented with evidence. :)
Disappeared? You are behaving like a child because someone asked you for data. I hope you can figure out how to control your rage someday.
I have very little patience for willful ignorance.
"The sky is orange and you can't prove otherwise."
"You're dumb."
"You can't find the data because it doesn't exist. The sky is orange."
Incorrect. You have endless patience for your own willful ignorance and refusal to look at real numbers instead of your feelings.
:D lol ignore that data more, chuckles
Nah, I think I'll look at the data, now that I have a minute.
Here's Clinton favorability among Dems 2016. 77-78% late in the campaign.
Dems did prefer Obama. Different poll and different questions but 88% of Dems chose Obama over McCain and 92% of Dems claimed they were excited for Obama. Give him the middle at 90%?
Here's Biden '20. Adding enthusiastic to satisfied is 91%. I don't know if that counts, elsewhere in the poll you can see a huge number of people were primarily voting against Donald.
And Harris in late July looks like 83% with Dems. Again a different poll. Hopefully she's more like 90% with Dems in a November instead of near 80% (which we know is reviled by literally everyone from your "people are saying" assertions).
Difficult to find and compare even measures this similar, and the numbers don't really support you. That's why you didn't want to check.
I did check, found the sources proved my point, and refused to spoonfeed you.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/poll-clinton-unpopularity-high-par-trump/story?id=41752050
https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/politics/2016-election-poll-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/index.html
You cherry-picked data in an attempt to make your point, but just....proved mine? Harris has a likability problem too, and she's already at a 5 point advantage over Clinton's peak, what 3 weeks into her campaign?
Biden and Obama with 13-14% advantages? That qualifies as wildly different.
"I refuse to even Google this because I know i'll be INSTANTLY proven wrong", keep sticking your head in the sand buddy
I don't think I'm any better than you are at searching. You worked at it for a while and found nothing. I'll accept that.
All the way through 2018 Hillary had very poor favorability ratings. ^[1] It's hard to find like-for-like favorability measurements made recently, but according to YouGov she does seem to have slightly rebounded over the past couple of years.^[2]
The subject of Clinton hate is enough of a topic that multiple books have been written on it, both in defense of Clinton and in prosecution.^[3]
Thanks!
I'm kinda wondering about their claim regarding 2016. On that first link if we look at the breakdown with just Dems she was like 75-90 around November. IDK if 75 disastrously low for a Dem candidate?
I'm still dubious at the idea that everyone hates her and always has. And of course still dubious that voters hate Hillary Clinton so much having her speak on one's behalf would cost their support.
I can see it. It's the young voters: the ones currently driving the Harris wave. They don't like the old, they had no interest in Biden and were old enough to absorb anti-Hillary sentiment through osmosis during 2016. The campaign now is new, feels fresh and hip. For once they have a candidate they can relate to. And what do they see when they tune into the DNC - which should be a hypefest? Stuffy old establishment Dems, including much-maligned Hillary. That to me sounds like a great way to take some wind out of the sails of the campaign.
Those independent votes are as important this election as they were in 2016, though.
That's absolutely true, of course. But that doesn't mean showing unity between old-guard, establishment Democrats and more progressive factions will be a bad thing. For one, Clinton's image has improved substantially compared to the orange turd. For another, this will definitely be seen as a positive, passing-of-the-torch kind of deal.
In fact, I'm leaning towards the opinion that denying the Clintons opportunities to speak in support of Harris would have been seen as divisive at a time when optimism and unity are driving her campaign. And independents definitely like to see optimism and unity.
Not trying to be combative here but do you have any sources? It's been hard finding recent data, but in 2018 her favorability was still very low. ^[1] The best I can find is 19% (compared to Harris 29%) backing Hillary as nominee should Biden drop out back in February. ^[2]
I can see your arguments, but I'm also wary of halting the momentum of the campaign, which has somehow managed to position itself as new and fresh and unburdened by what has been (establishment democrats).
No worries, I'll never be upset by requests for citations. Those are always legitimate to ask for.
According to YouGov, her current popularity is 42%, her "Disliked By" rating is 38%, and 18% feel neutral about her. I'd assume those numbers shift when looking only at Democrats and independents, but regardless, it's quite a distance from her 2018 favorability ratings. Source: https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Hillary_Clinton
It's impressive I guess that she's clawed back to barely favourable, I'll give her that. However, I don't think you can think about only her appeal to other democrats. The DNC doesn't exist in a vacuum. The republicans have a vast array of old Hillary attack angles ready to go, and footage of Harris and Hillary together puts all of those back in play. Trump and his cronies can and will use them all in hopes of swaying independents and undecideds who still dislike Clinton. It's a vulnerability I don't think the campaign needs in exchange for dubious gains.
It's important to remember this is just a speech, not an invitation for the Clintons back into the White House. I trust the Harris team to have thought this through.
And it occurs to me they have an obvious response: "Why are you campaigning against Hillary Clinton? That's a weird thing to do, she's not running."
Politics has nothing to do with reality and everything to do with optics - if it wasn't already known since before, then the Trump win in 2016 definitively proved it. Maybe I'm overly cautious though, I just am wary of opening actual angles of attack. Right now Trump's side has nothing.
So historically unpopular that she got more votes than the guy who "won" the election?
Dems held their nose and voted for her to try to avoid trump. She is historically unpopular.
Fair enough, I should have considered that!