But brah, it's totally acceptable to overreact when one candidate doesn't give us every little fucking thing we want, and MORE. They better cowtow, or I'm gonna keep being mean in comments because that's useful and productive for reealz.
I'll totally trash their bullshit because I'm not "working for the man", dawg. Kamala is just more bullllshiiiit or whatever stupid thing we people say. Palestine on ma dingdong, and JillStein4Prez ✌️💩💩
Do you genuinely think that people are being petulant or petty or something because they strongly object to their leadership supporting an ongoing genocide? Like this is some unreasonable "pet issue" or something?
Yes, because they are. Let's break it down.
The only factual result of the system we can vote in has the outcome of two parties.
GOP is getting people in swing states kicked off the rolls
Ranked choice hasn't hit all states yet
Ergo: anyone who doesn't vote for Harris is a vote for Trump. Like it or not.
It is a dipole. You vote for fascism and some old bitch trying to save his own ass in a clear run towards dictatorship, OR YOU VOTE AGAINST THAT.
Jill Stein and RFK Jr are wasted votes. That's the fucking facts. Get with reality.
And if your sole vote is about Gaza, GUESS WHAT? Everyone else is waiting in line to sell weapons to Israel. You won't solve that issue by voting for fascist bullshit in the US as a revenge vote.
So yeah...I'd call that fucking petulant if you're willing to vote for fascism because you don't get your fucking way. Kick and scream and do whatever you want. It's not going the way you want in either case, so don't take the extra step to "stick it to the man" by helping vote Trump in.
anyone who doesn't vote for Harris is a vote for Trump. Like it or not.
Following this logic: anyone who does not vote for Trump votes for Harris.
So a vote for third party is a vote for Harris?
No.
It's saying if you don't vote for the best chance to stop the threat to democracy (Trump) then you are, on some level, ok with what Trump will do.
Same applies the other way. If you think she's horrible for some reason but don't vote for Trump (the candidate with the best chance to beat her), then you're willing to accept her agenda.
Apparently you don't get logic. You're definitely a Stein voter.
I applied logic consistently. I see that is not appreciated here.
Is supporting a genocide fascist? If I were trying to differentiate myself from a fascist opponent, I might simply stop supporting the genocide. Would you go to war if drafted? If you don't go, someone else will. That person might shoot children in the stomach, whereas you would more compassionately aim for the head.
I literally ran down a thread a few days ago asking for comment attackers to justify dropping Israel as an ally. Nobody came at me with a viable plan aside from "Uhhhh, just stop".
That's not how it works.
Please feel free to enlighten us on your solution though.
Nobody came at me with a viable plan
Is that the one where one side of the argument kept ignoring anything other than mindless unconditional support for genocide and only genocide and kept dropping little one-word dismissals like "next" and "BYE"?
Because the thread got nuked and I'm wondering if I have you confused for a different condescending genocide apologist. There are so many of them on lemmy.
Please feel free to enlighten us on your solution though.
Condition or cease weapons sales.
us every little fucking thing we want
Imagine supporting genocide so hard that this is what you think of anyone who objects to it in any way at all ever.
Disgusting mindset.
The real world is not nice or perfect.
You take the least worst option. You're choosing between a 2/10 and a 7/10 and then upset that the 7/10 isn't a 10/10. That's never going to happen. I would love for it to, but that's naively idealistic.
I love when liberals actually put things in these terms because it's so much more honest than how they typically talk about it.
A candidate supporting genocide means they don't, "give us every little fucking thing we want, and MORE." A pro-genocide candidate is still a "7/10." Good, yes, drop the pretense and tell the truth that you just don't really give a shit how many foreigners get murdered, instead of trying to act like some bleeding heart. Exposing the contradictions like that is good.
Saying one is better than the other does not mean people don't care about people dying. That's extremely dishonest and arguing in bad faith. Ffs. If I have to cut off my arm or my finger, I don't like either but I can realize the best choice.
I could say that by going after Kamala for this you don't care if Trump wins, you only care about the middle east. But that would be dishonest, so I'm not making absurd leaps in logic, but that seems to be how your approaching this topic. If all you can do is argue in bad faith then there's no room for a conversation.
That's what I'm saying. Usually you lot wring your hands and say, "Oh, we really care so much about the genocide, it's just Trump is so much worse, don't you know." But then you have comments like these that call genocide a "little thing," and that it only docks a couple points off of how you'd rate a politician. So it reveals that all you posturing that you care is fake. You might prefer that it not happen, all else being equal, but it hardly matters to you at all.
A politician supporting genocide is like getting a different flavor of ice cream than what you wanted. This sort of honesty is rare, and it makes a much better starting point then the bullshit y'all are always pushing about how much you care. It's a waste of time trying to argue against premises a person is merely pretending to hold.
"You lot"? What lot am I lol, I'm curious what stereotypical bucket you've decided I'm in.
You then put "little thing" in quotes. I've never once called genocide a little thing, ever. This is more dishonesty. I said it makes her less desirable, that's reality, I expressed that with a 10 point scale. What do you want me to make her and Trump both 0/10, act like they're the same?
But somehow I don't care because I can see that all things considered one candidate is better than the other. You seem to tell me how I feel, who I am, and what I think. And now you're telling me this doesn't even matter to me? How transparent
...
Ok well I stopped reading the rest. Your not even making a point you're just making wild assumptions and telling me who I am. Well I can tell you what I've observed about you. You don't care about facts, reality, or nuance. You're a hyped up activist that has lost the plot all for this crusade. You're willing to let the world burn and attack anyone who doesn't think this is all that matter in the world.
You need to grow up and understand that wars and death happen throughout history. Most people don't like it, and since you can't stop making wild assumptions let me state clearly that I don't like it. But if we drop everything and hyper focus on every single war while letting corrupt politicians who want to stop voting and remove rights at home then it helps nothing. If Trump is in office not only does he not help either, but he causes more harm. The net amount of suffering in the world goes up, and that's what matters. I'm looking at the global stage and you can't seem to expand your mind to see the big picture.
Keep ranting and raving if you want. Tell me who I hate and that I love seeing people die or whatever, I don't care. You're a lost cause.
You then put “little thing” in quotes. I’ve never once called genocide a little thing, ever. This is more dishonesty.
And I'm already voting for Harris. I still get to gripe about genocide, no matter how much it pisses off centrists to hear the blasphemy to the core of their worldview that is the merest suggestion that we shouldn't be supporting genocide.
Sure, and if you make people not vote for her, increasing Trumps chance to win, so be it. I suppose you're ok with that outcome.
I'd rather do whatever I can to get her in office then push for change. If US democracy falls apart with Trump then we have much larger problems than war in the middle east.
Sure, and if you make people not vote for her,
With my spoooooky mind control ray? You just want everyone who doesn't support genocide to shut up.
No, I'm acknowledging that how you discuss it can impact an election. Are you honestly so dense that you don't understand that?
And no, that's not what I want and it's not what I said, but please keep continuing this pattern of telling me how I feel and what I want. It seems you do have a mind reading ray, otherwise these claims would be extremely ignorant.
And no, that’s not what I want and it’s not what I said, but please keep continuing this pattern of telling me how I feel and what I want.
Then maybe give some indication that you're upset about the genocide and not just angry that people don't think it's a good idea for Democrats to support it.
I've said genocide is bad multiple times, what do you want a video of me crying? Jesus. I've said I'm against it, I've even said we need to push for change. You just don't want to hear that, I don't agree with you on every single point so you want to immediately other me and make assumptions about my stance.
You seem to be operating more off emotion than logic...
I’ve said genocide is bad multiple times,
And I've said I'm voting for Harris multiple times. If you don't care and keep ignoring that, why should I extend greater courtesy to you?
I’ve said I’m against it, I’ve even said we need to push for change.
While also saying that objections to genocide are making people vote for Trump.
You seem to be operating more off emotion than logic…
Imagine being emotional when your party is supporting genocide and is openly hostile to any attempt to stop or even slow it. This is monstrous and disgusting and unconscionably immoral. No US politician of any party has any business supporting this, let alone Democrats, the "moral high ground" party.
The lion's share of your vitriol is directed at the critics of genocide, not at its perpetrators or enablers.
And I've said I'm voting for Harris multiple times. If you don't care and keep ignoring that, why should I extend greater courtesy to you?
Because I've never said your not voting for her, simply that your comments could impact other voters. You've said I don't care multiple times when I've said the opposite. You seem more interested in a sick burn than being accurate.
While also saying that objections to genocide are making people vote for Trump.
Never said that once. I never said being against genocide means you're pro Trump. I've even said I'm against it. Holy crap you are dishonest.
Imagine being emotional when your party is supporting genocide and is openly hostile to any attempt to stop or even slow it. This is monstrous and disgusting and unconscionably immoral. No US politician of any party has any business supporting this, let alone Democrats, the "moral high ground" party.
Imagine trying to solve a problem with emotion not logic. That's exactly what you're trying to do.
The lion's share of your vitriol is directed at the critics of genocide, not at its perpetrators or enablers.
Wrong again. I'm trying to prevent genocide being the middle east, you seem to have blinders on.
Because I’ve never said your not voting for her, simply that your comments could impact other voters.
You said I was making them vote against her. Don't gaslight me.
Never said that once. I never said being against genocide means you’re pro Trump. I’ve even said I’m against it. Holy crap you are dishonest.
You said I was making them vote against her. Don't gaslight me.
Imagine trying to solve a problem with emotion not logic. That’s exactly what you’re trying to do.
Can I not gripe about genocide without an immediate logical solution?
I’m trying to prevent genocide being the middle east
By directing your anger at the critics of genocide and not at its perpetrators or enablers.
But brah, it's totally acceptable to overreact when one candidate doesn't give us every little fucking thing we want, and MORE. They better cowtow, or I'm gonna keep being mean in comments because that's useful and productive for reealz.
I'll totally trash their bullshit because I'm not "working for the man", dawg. Kamala is just more bullllshiiiit or whatever stupid thing we people say. Palestine on ma dingdong, and JillStein4Prez ✌️💩💩
Do you genuinely think that people are being petulant or petty or something because they strongly object to their leadership supporting an ongoing genocide? Like this is some unreasonable "pet issue" or something?
Yes, because they are. Let's break it down.
Ergo: anyone who doesn't vote for Harris is a vote for Trump. Like it or not.
It is a dipole. You vote for fascism and some old bitch trying to save his own ass in a clear run towards dictatorship, OR YOU VOTE AGAINST THAT.
Jill Stein and RFK Jr are wasted votes. That's the fucking facts. Get with reality.
And if your sole vote is about Gaza, GUESS WHAT? Everyone else is waiting in line to sell weapons to Israel. You won't solve that issue by voting for fascist bullshit in the US as a revenge vote.
So yeah...I'd call that fucking petulant if you're willing to vote for fascism because you don't get your fucking way. Kick and scream and do whatever you want. It's not going the way you want in either case, so don't take the extra step to "stick it to the man" by helping vote Trump in.
Following this logic: anyone who does not vote for Trump votes for Harris.
So a vote for third party is a vote for Harris?
No.
It's saying if you don't vote for the best chance to stop the threat to democracy (Trump) then you are, on some level, ok with what Trump will do.
Same applies the other way. If you think she's horrible for some reason but don't vote for Trump (the candidate with the best chance to beat her), then you're willing to accept her agenda.
Apparently you don't get logic. You're definitely a Stein voter.
I applied logic consistently. I see that is not appreciated here.
Is supporting a genocide fascist? If I were trying to differentiate myself from a fascist opponent, I might simply stop supporting the genocide. Would you go to war if drafted? If you don't go, someone else will. That person might shoot children in the stomach, whereas you would more compassionately aim for the head.
I literally ran down a thread a few days ago asking for comment attackers to justify dropping Israel as an ally. Nobody came at me with a viable plan aside from "Uhhhh, just stop".
That's not how it works.
Please feel free to enlighten us on your solution though.
Is that the one where one side of the argument kept ignoring anything other than mindless unconditional support for genocide and only genocide and kept dropping little one-word dismissals like "next" and "BYE"?
Because the thread got nuked and I'm wondering if I have you confused for a different condescending genocide apologist. There are so many of them on lemmy.
Condition or cease weapons sales.
Imagine supporting genocide so hard that this is what you think of anyone who objects to it in any way at all ever.
Disgusting mindset.
The real world is not nice or perfect.
You take the least worst option. You're choosing between a 2/10 and a 7/10 and then upset that the 7/10 isn't a 10/10. That's never going to happen. I would love for it to, but that's naively idealistic.
I love when liberals actually put things in these terms because it's so much more honest than how they typically talk about it.
A candidate supporting genocide means they don't, "give us every little fucking thing we want, and MORE." A pro-genocide candidate is still a "7/10." Good, yes, drop the pretense and tell the truth that you just don't really give a shit how many foreigners get murdered, instead of trying to act like some bleeding heart. Exposing the contradictions like that is good.
Saying one is better than the other does not mean people don't care about people dying. That's extremely dishonest and arguing in bad faith. Ffs. If I have to cut off my arm or my finger, I don't like either but I can realize the best choice.
I could say that by going after Kamala for this you don't care if Trump wins, you only care about the middle east. But that would be dishonest, so I'm not making absurd leaps in logic, but that seems to be how your approaching this topic. If all you can do is argue in bad faith then there's no room for a conversation.
That's what I'm saying. Usually you lot wring your hands and say, "Oh, we really care so much about the genocide, it's just Trump is so much worse, don't you know." But then you have comments like these that call genocide a "little thing," and that it only docks a couple points off of how you'd rate a politician. So it reveals that all you posturing that you care is fake. You might prefer that it not happen, all else being equal, but it hardly matters to you at all.
A politician supporting genocide is like getting a different flavor of ice cream than what you wanted. This sort of honesty is rare, and it makes a much better starting point then the bullshit y'all are always pushing about how much you care. It's a waste of time trying to argue against premises a person is merely pretending to hold.
"You lot"? What lot am I lol, I'm curious what stereotypical bucket you've decided I'm in.
You then put "little thing" in quotes. I've never once called genocide a little thing, ever. This is more dishonesty. I said it makes her less desirable, that's reality, I expressed that with a 10 point scale. What do you want me to make her and Trump both 0/10, act like they're the same?
But somehow I don't care because I can see that all things considered one candidate is better than the other. You seem to tell me how I feel, who I am, and what I think. And now you're telling me this doesn't even matter to me? How transparent ...
Ok well I stopped reading the rest. Your not even making a point you're just making wild assumptions and telling me who I am. Well I can tell you what I've observed about you. You don't care about facts, reality, or nuance. You're a hyped up activist that has lost the plot all for this crusade. You're willing to let the world burn and attack anyone who doesn't think this is all that matter in the world.
You need to grow up and understand that wars and death happen throughout history. Most people don't like it, and since you can't stop making wild assumptions let me state clearly that I don't like it. But if we drop everything and hyper focus on every single war while letting corrupt politicians who want to stop voting and remove rights at home then it helps nothing. If Trump is in office not only does he not help either, but he causes more harm. The net amount of suffering in the world goes up, and that's what matters. I'm looking at the global stage and you can't seem to expand your mind to see the big picture.
Keep ranting and raving if you want. Tell me who I hate and that I love seeing people die or whatever, I don't care. You're a lost cause.
The comment you're defending did. Calling it dishonesty is, ironically dishonesty.
And I'm already voting for Harris. I still get to gripe about genocide, no matter how much it pisses off centrists to hear the blasphemy to the core of their worldview that is the merest suggestion that we shouldn't be supporting genocide.
Sure, and if you make people not vote for her, increasing Trumps chance to win, so be it. I suppose you're ok with that outcome.
I'd rather do whatever I can to get her in office then push for change. If US democracy falls apart with Trump then we have much larger problems than war in the middle east.
With my spoooooky mind control ray? You just want everyone who doesn't support genocide to shut up.
No, I'm acknowledging that how you discuss it can impact an election. Are you honestly so dense that you don't understand that?
And no, that's not what I want and it's not what I said, but please keep continuing this pattern of telling me how I feel and what I want. It seems you do have a mind reading ray, otherwise these claims would be extremely ignorant.
Then maybe give some indication that you're upset about the genocide and not just angry that people don't think it's a good idea for Democrats to support it.
I've said genocide is bad multiple times, what do you want a video of me crying? Jesus. I've said I'm against it, I've even said we need to push for change. You just don't want to hear that, I don't agree with you on every single point so you want to immediately other me and make assumptions about my stance.
You seem to be operating more off emotion than logic...
And I've said I'm voting for Harris multiple times. If you don't care and keep ignoring that, why should I extend greater courtesy to you?
While also saying that objections to genocide are making people vote for Trump.
Imagine being emotional when your party is supporting genocide and is openly hostile to any attempt to stop or even slow it. This is monstrous and disgusting and unconscionably immoral. No US politician of any party has any business supporting this, let alone Democrats, the "moral high ground" party.
The lion's share of your vitriol is directed at the critics of genocide, not at its perpetrators or enablers.
Because I've never said your not voting for her, simply that your comments could impact other voters. You've said I don't care multiple times when I've said the opposite. You seem more interested in a sick burn than being accurate.
Never said that once. I never said being against genocide means you're pro Trump. I've even said I'm against it. Holy crap you are dishonest.
Imagine trying to solve a problem with emotion not logic. That's exactly what you're trying to do.
Wrong again. I'm trying to prevent genocide being the middle east, you seem to have blinders on.
You said I was making them vote against her. Don't gaslight me.
You said I was making them vote against her. Don't gaslight me.
Can I not gripe about genocide without an immediate logical solution?
By directing your anger at the critics of genocide and not at its perpetrators or enablers.