Voting for either side is just accepting the status quo.
Third party vote today is just laying ground work for a generational fight. There is no other way to get the attention from the politicians.
They rule on behalf of donors and two party system ensures they ways win, they just take turns.
There is no other way to get the attention from the politicians.
And if those politicians are so keen on ignoring you, why would they listen to this? Oh, you voted for Cornel West because you're "unsatisfied," literally who cares? The status quo wins again, goodbye. Say hello to the camps.
Say hello to the camps.
is the new DNC FUD we get for voting third party?
yes please put me into fema camp staffed by obama death panel, my DNC komissar 🤡
You didn't answer the question.
If the DNC doesn't listen anyway, why would a 3rd party vote "get attention from them"?
I stated my position on this issue all over this thread.
But for you here again dear:
This tactic will only work if peasants are able to upset the regime sufficiently. a constant 3-5 percent every election, they will have to take notice. double digits they will have to start planning around it.
This is a generational tactic, it will take several cycles to get the message across IF AND ONLY IF we can get 2-10% of voters of to go third choice every single election across all elections.
This is a guerilla, asymmetric tactic. No doubt about it.
But it very low cost from personal perspective but can be easily scaled if public sentiment turns.
Once, we got the regime asking questions we can start getting proper 3p candidates in places. Or people can start now on them... but everybody can start denying the regime legitimacy today.
And what happens in the mean time? Third parties almost always take votes from the Democrats. (That is to say, most of the people who vote third party would have voted Democrat if the third party was not on the ballot.) This gives a huge advantage to the Republican party on close elections. The result is further entrenching of the party that has the larger vested interest in not reforming the system. As a result, any generational movement has no chance of succeeding because the party that directly opposes their goal is always in power.
(To expand: since Democrats lose votes to third parties, they are the ones who would greatly benefit from any kind of ranked choice voting, so they tend to support such reforms. Since Republicans benefit more from FPTP, they tend to oppose such reforms.)
It's all well and good to send a message, but that message will be received by the people who benefit most by ignoring that message.
The better method is to get people in power now who support election reform, get those reforms passed, then third party candidates become viable.
And what happens in the mean time?
The same thing that has been happening since at least the 80s. Quality of life will continue to slowly degrade, less natural child birth, more immigration, more work, less pay, higher taxes.
Your comment hinges on the idea that "if we just vote for democrats this one more time, they will finally reverted the course"
I don't believe this position. I know most people still do. Hence why this is will be a generational change as more and more people become disenfranchised they will stop voting for either party. We are already partially here but the regime got away because nobody cares about low voter turn outs.
I am shilling fuck NOT VOTING, VOTE AGAINST THESE PARASITES.
If you are a dedicated Democrat, then vote Democrat. That's how voting works, everybody gets a their vote and they can do with it as they please.
I don't understand how "I am taking away votes from Democrats"
Why would I care? These people are not my friend, family or "team"
Together with Republicans, the Democrats are the regime the elites use to oppress working people. Why would I engage with a bad faith actor?
Why engage with people you don't agree with? Because they will get you closer to what you want. What you want is voting reform, so vote for the people who are pushing for voter reform:
It's no coincidence that these bills are being introduced by Democrats. If you want these bills passed, they also need support to get them passed. As long as the house and senate are split between the Democrats and Republicans, these bills will not get passed. Simple as.
I'm not saying that voting Democrat will make them reverse course. I'm saying that voting Democrat so they have enough control to get these bills passed will let them complete the course they are already on so that you can get what you want.
I'm saying that voting Democrat so they have enough control to get these bills passed will let them complete the course they are already on so that you can get what you want.
After student loan reforms and ACA, which both costs me money directly and solved absolutely nothing, I am done with Democrat's reforms... or Republican for that matter.
I think you are literally missing the key piece from my analysis... we are living under a two-party regime voting for either party is voting for the status quo.
You counter: IF YOU JUST VOTE FOR MY GUY ONE MORE TIME, WE MIGHT GET VOTING REFORM.
Bruhh... i am past this point. I think other people are getting close too.
We can't keep voting these clowns and expect different results.
Both the student loans and the ACA were actively gutted by Republicans, so they are a perfect example of why getting Republicans out is beneficial to you. You want student loan forgiveness? Get rid of the Republicans that are blocking it. You want single-payer or socialized medicine? Get rid of the Republicans that are blocking it. Both have been introduced by Democrats, both were voted on along party lines and failed due to Republicans.
You are missing my point: you are only hurting yourself and your goals with that strategy. Voting third party only helps Republicans and isn't seen as any kind of protest by anyone who matters. No one says you have to LIKE voting for either of the parties, but only one party is closer to your goals, is actively trying to achieve your goals, and has a chance of actually getting elected so your goals can be achieved.
Both the student loans and the ACA were actively gutted by Republicans
So regime won... again. Are you making my point for me here lol
You want student loan forgiveness?
I did not say this.
You want single-payer or socialized medicine?
We had Dem President and both houses... we got ACA... "just vote for my guy this one more time, i spear we will get healthcare" Like how many times do plebs have to this trick?
You are missing my point: you are only hurting yourself and your goals with that strategy.
That is your opinion. I got mine. People can make up their minds for themselves, which is the entire point of this discussion.
Voting third party only helps Republicans and isn't seen as any kind of protest by anyone who matters.
I said I don't care about either party. I care do care to deny them my vote.
but only one party is closer to your goals
Historical records and current trends say the opposite.
Bottom line: the REGIME IS NOT THE ANSWER, the sooner people figure this out, the quicker we can move forward.
Entire point of voting for either party is to keep the status quo. Reform within this election framework is impossible. ONLY other alternative if violence but everybody but brain dead trump voters know this is a bad idea for peasants. We will get killed by volumes.
Voting for either side is just accepting the status quo.
Third party vote today is just laying ground work for a generational fight. There is no other way to get the attention from the politicians.
They rule on behalf of donors and two party system ensures they ways win, they just take turns.
And if those politicians are so keen on ignoring you, why would they listen to this? Oh, you voted for Cornel West because you're "unsatisfied," literally who cares? The status quo wins again, goodbye. Say hello to the camps.
is the new DNC FUD we get for voting third party?
yes please put me into fema camp staffed by obama death panel, my DNC komissar 🤡
You didn't answer the question.
If the DNC doesn't listen anyway, why would a 3rd party vote "get attention from them"?
I stated my position on this issue all over this thread.
But for you here again dear:
This tactic will only work if peasants are able to upset the regime sufficiently. a constant 3-5 percent every election, they will have to take notice. double digits they will have to start planning around it.
This is a generational tactic, it will take several cycles to get the message across IF AND ONLY IF we can get 2-10% of voters of to go third choice every single election across all elections.
This is a guerilla, asymmetric tactic. No doubt about it.
But it very low cost from personal perspective but can be easily scaled if public sentiment turns.
Once, we got the regime asking questions we can start getting proper 3p candidates in places. Or people can start now on them... but everybody can start denying the regime legitimacy today.
And what happens in the mean time? Third parties almost always take votes from the Democrats. (That is to say, most of the people who vote third party would have voted Democrat if the third party was not on the ballot.) This gives a huge advantage to the Republican party on close elections. The result is further entrenching of the party that has the larger vested interest in not reforming the system. As a result, any generational movement has no chance of succeeding because the party that directly opposes their goal is always in power.
(To expand: since Democrats lose votes to third parties, they are the ones who would greatly benefit from any kind of ranked choice voting, so they tend to support such reforms. Since Republicans benefit more from FPTP, they tend to oppose such reforms.)
It's all well and good to send a message, but that message will be received by the people who benefit most by ignoring that message.
The better method is to get people in power now who support election reform, get those reforms passed, then third party candidates become viable.
The same thing that has been happening since at least the 80s. Quality of life will continue to slowly degrade, less natural child birth, more immigration, more work, less pay, higher taxes.
Your comment hinges on the idea that "if we just vote for democrats this one more time, they will finally reverted the course"
I don't believe this position. I know most people still do. Hence why this is will be a generational change as more and more people become disenfranchised they will stop voting for either party. We are already partially here but the regime got away because nobody cares about low voter turn outs.
I am shilling fuck NOT VOTING, VOTE AGAINST THESE PARASITES.
If you are a dedicated Democrat, then vote Democrat. That's how voting works, everybody gets a their vote and they can do with it as they please.
I don't understand how "I am taking away votes from Democrats"
Why would I care? These people are not my friend, family or "team"
Together with Republicans, the Democrats are the regime the elites use to oppress working people. Why would I engage with a bad faith actor?
Why engage with people you don't agree with? Because they will get you closer to what you want. What you want is voting reform, so vote for the people who are pushing for voter reform:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/3313/text
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/5048
https://raskin.house.gov/2024/9/raskin-beyer-welch-bill-would-bring-ranked-choice-voting-to-congressional-elections-across-america
And not just federally, but locally as well:
https://fairvote.org/ranked-choice-voting-legislation/
It's no coincidence that these bills are being introduced by Democrats. If you want these bills passed, they also need support to get them passed. As long as the house and senate are split between the Democrats and Republicans, these bills will not get passed. Simple as.
I'm not saying that voting Democrat will make them reverse course. I'm saying that voting Democrat so they have enough control to get these bills passed will let them complete the course they are already on so that you can get what you want.
After student loan reforms and ACA, which both costs me money directly and solved absolutely nothing, I am done with Democrat's reforms... or Republican for that matter.
I think you are literally missing the key piece from my analysis... we are living under a two-party regime voting for either party is voting for the status quo.
You counter: IF YOU JUST VOTE FOR MY GUY ONE MORE TIME, WE MIGHT GET VOTING REFORM.
Bruhh... i am past this point. I think other people are getting close too.
We can't keep voting these clowns and expect different results.
Both the student loans and the ACA were actively gutted by Republicans, so they are a perfect example of why getting Republicans out is beneficial to you. You want student loan forgiveness? Get rid of the Republicans that are blocking it. You want single-payer or socialized medicine? Get rid of the Republicans that are blocking it. Both have been introduced by Democrats, both were voted on along party lines and failed due to Republicans.
You are missing my point: you are only hurting yourself and your goals with that strategy. Voting third party only helps Republicans and isn't seen as any kind of protest by anyone who matters. No one says you have to LIKE voting for either of the parties, but only one party is closer to your goals, is actively trying to achieve your goals, and has a chance of actually getting elected so your goals can be achieved.
So regime won... again. Are you making my point for me here lol
I did not say this.
We had Dem President and both houses... we got ACA... "just vote for my guy this one more time, i spear we will get healthcare" Like how many times do plebs have to this trick?
That is your opinion. I got mine. People can make up their minds for themselves, which is the entire point of this discussion.
I said I don't care about either party. I care do care to deny them my vote.
Historical records and current trends say the opposite.
Bottom line: the REGIME IS NOT THE ANSWER, the sooner people figure this out, the quicker we can move forward.
Entire point of voting for either party is to keep the status quo. Reform within this election framework is impossible. ONLY other alternative if violence but everybody but brain dead trump voters know this is a bad idea for peasants. We will get killed by volumes.
The only alternative left is to DENY ENGAGEMENT.