Intellectual Property should be abolished - change my mind!

PropaGandalf@lemmy.world to

Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ@lemmy.dbzer0.com – 106 points – 1 years ago

lemmy.world

Hey mateys!

I made a post at /c/libertarianism about the abolition of IP. Maybe some of you will find it interesting.

Please answer in the other community so that all the knowledge is in one place and easier to discover.

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I'm not opposed to intellectual property because there's an argument for providing a limited time monopoly to the creators of works to provide incentive to make works public. Without any such incentive, it's entirely possible that the monetization structures for different works change, for example locking content behind restrictive systems that don't allow for personal use at all.

The key is "limited time". If you can't make your money back in 15 years, then maybe it's time to make a new thing? The idea that someone should own a thing you made after you're dead is stupid -- how exactly will that promote you to create new works? If you're dead, your creating days are over except for creating plant food out of your bones and organs.

I put my money where my mouth is, and the legal page of the graysonian ethic specifically lists that the book is put into the public domain or license after Creative Commons CC0 license after 15 years from the date of first publishing.

Other than liking the nice round number of 20 years, that’s exactly my take. Copyright longevity creates perverse incentives for rights holders, and it locks down the ability of other creators to use common cultural references.

I’d say no more than 10 years for ANYTHING. Copyright, patent, you name it. I would also prohibit any and all software and design patents.

Trademark would last only as long as actively in use.

These changes alone (without other major reforms) would be particularly catastrophic in sectors that require large investment over a long period of time. For example, pharmaceuticals typically cost billions and take 10-15 years to develop.

Billions typically paid for by government subsidy, id est taxpayers. I'm not sure what the justification is for private IP rights when the capital is socialized.

i so seldom see anyone actually write out 'id est' instead of 'i.e,' that part of my brain insisted for a solid second that it had to be a typo lol

It's part of how I remember id est versus exempli gratia

Pharmaceuticals is about the worst example you could pick to make a point. It's notorious for socializing the cost and privatizing the profit (not to mention the ethics of price gouging life saving medication treatments).

Here's what Johnson&Johnson is doing right now with a TB drug whose development was paid largely with public funding:

The pill, called bedaquiline, was first approved in 2012 as the first new TB drug in over 40 years and revolutionized treatment for drug-resistant infections. But its relatively high cost limited access in many low- and middle-income countries hit hardest by an epidemic that still kills around 1.5 million people every year, most of them among the world’s poorest. The company initially charged $900 per course in low-income countries, according to a 2016 report, but gradually lowered it to $340 three years ago.

The secondary patent particularly irked some advocates because the drug’s development was largely underwritten by public funds, according to a 2020 analysis. That study found public sector funds contributed $455 million to $747 million to getting bedaquiline to market, compared to $90 million to $240 million from J&J.

The pharmaceutical companies would definitely not cut back on their profits, so at "best" they would either get public money to make it several times faster, or they would cut back on quality and safety (*lobbies have entered the chat); and in either case the final price would be higher.
There is plenty of room to get worse, even in the current favorable conditions they prioritize known cost-effective palliative treatments over research into expensive solutions that may lead to nothing.

If the entire health sector were public and concerned itself with saving lives instead of making money, it would be a different story, but that is where we get into major reforms.

I don't think you realize how incredibly short 10 years is in terms of investment recuperation. That's not realistic unless you're talking about abandoning capitalism all together, at which point the particulars of IP law are irrelevant

I agree with you both, although imho 15/20 is a bit too long? The only reason being something can be improved better(?) by multiple entities working on it (competitively) than a single entity. Maybe 10 years? I'm thinking if I have an invention (let's say a new engine), 10 years should be enough for me to earn my share. After that, other companies/individuals can use my base/foundation and build on it. With more people working on that engine and competing with each other, the end product would probably be much better than when I work at it alone.

So if i'm a writer writing a series over a decade, my first book, which only got me a 10k advance, will stop giving me even a pittance in royalties a decade later even as I am adding new books to the series? Most creatives are not rich household names, and your idea would not be a death knell for Disney, but for the small creators already earning poverty wages.

Valid point (and one I initially did not consider). But I still stand by what I said, although I admit it can be more flexible if you're contractually bound to write a series. Maybe a few years' worth of extensions per entry or it starts after a series is over? Certainly not 70 years after an author's death. We know books depend on popularity to sell, and we've seen only a few (relatively) authors get rich on their books alone.

10 years is a long time - I would not stay in a job that doesn't pay enough for my needs for 10 years no matter how much I enjoy it. My problem is I admittedly am not well-versed in that specific industry (trusted resources are welcome as I've tried searching but I don't recognize many of the websites so idk how reliable they are). But an increase in salary (or advances) and/or royalties may be in order. I think everyone is entitled to that at this point.

Again, this is from my admittedly limited knowledge in that specific industry, so feel free to correct me. It's just that imho IP rights, as they are today, is kind of ludicrous.

I was talking about what copyright should be.

Damn that mouse, I'd even be fine with life of the author in theory. But life of the author +70 freaking years is ridiculous.

People would take out hits on people to free an IP, if it is particularly valuable. So lets not bind it to an authors life at all.

The problem is noted by Karl Marx, the capitalist inevitably captures the government and its regulating departments so that the body of laws will be revised in their favor. Remember that the point of copyright laws in the Constitution of the United States, to promote science and the useful arts was killed when IP was extended. Every year that someone owns an idea is year that the rest of us does not.

I don't know the solution, but corruption of the temporary monopoly was inevitable.

Power captures power. Money is a form of power, but there are many forms and the powerful tend to try to grab more power no matter the situation.