You brought politics into this discussion. You got called for having unsavory post history praising mass murders. If you are eastern European, that's a very weird position to take. I am guessing they didn't raise or you are too dense to realize what was done there.
I doubt any here is an ally of the pigs in blue, so really you derailed this discussion by inserted you shiti politics.
I just don't get how adult men still fall for daddy worship on either side. 21sr century problems requires modern solutions, not repeating same clown history and sinping for dead clowns daddies.
I just don’t get how adult men still fall for daddy worship on either side. 21sr century problems requires modern solutions, not repeating same clown history and sinping for dead clowns daddies.
I am not a man. Stop misgendering me. This is the second fucking time in this thread.
You brought politics into this discussion.
I just said we're the ones that we've been saying this forever, and linked to some further reading.
You got called for having unsavory post history praising mass murders.
I've never praised "mass murderers". Get a grip.
If you are eastern European, that’s a very weird position to take
No it isn't. You have a warped view of what eastern europe believes because you see us as caricatures to use as a political weapon. I have gone over this in the past, there is a very large amount of positivity towards the soviet union here:
Reflecting back on the breakup of the Soviet Union that happened 22 years ago next week, residents in seven out of 11 countries that were part of the union are more likely to believe its collapse harmed their countries than benefited them. Only Azerbaijanis, Kazakhstanis, and Turkmens are more likely to see benefit than harm from the breakup. Georgians are divided.
A remarkable 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. In no other Central or Eastern European country surveyed did so many believe that economic life is worse now than during the communist era. This is the result of almost universal displeasure with the economy. Fully 94% describe the country's economy as bad, the highest level of economic discontent in the hard hit region of Central and Eastern Europe. Just 46% of Hungarians approve of their country's switch from a state-controlled economy to a market economy; 42% disapprove of the move away from communism. The public is even more negative toward Hungary's integration into Europe; 71% say their country has been weakened by the process.
The most incredible result was registered in a July 2010 IRES (Romanian Institute for Evaluation and Strategy) poll, according to which 41% of the respondents would have voted for Ceausescu, had he run for the position of president. And 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism, while only 23% attested that their life was worse then. Some 68% declared that communism was a good idea, just one that had been poorly applied.
Glorification of the German Democratic Republic is on the rise two decades after the Berlin Wall fell. Young people and the better off are among those rebuffing criticism of East Germany as an "illegitimate state." In a new poll, more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR.
Roughly 28 percent of Czechs say they were better off under the Communist regime, according to a poll conducted by the polling institute SC&C and released Sunday.
The majority of Russians polled in a 2016 study said they would prefer living under the old Soviet Union and would like to see the socialist system and the Soviet state restored.
Americans always say this stuff about europe because their brains are riddled with red scare brainworms and are completely devoid of any knowledge or understanding of what the left in Europe actually thinks because Americans do not have any experience with a left, they don't have one.
Being an adult woman into daddy worship ain't any better but OK.
OK we are using trust me bros surveys to justify USSR crimes now?
I am sure every country will have their bootlickers. You know those regims required plenty of collaborators to operate, I am sure they would still be simping for the good olds days when they were in charge.
Serb and russian example is disingenous also since their dear 'countries" lost a whole bunch of second class citizens that they liked to exploit for profit and mass murder fun.
Proper polling by some of the most respected institutes in the world isn't "trust me bro".
You can't dismiss actual evidence when it's presented to you just because it doesn't confirm what you want it to. I understand that you have this impression because it's what you've seen far right american losers repeat in reddit comment sections thousands of times over and over and over again, but these comments that you've used to build your worldview are not actually representative of reality. They are anecdotes by either people like yourself who have been led to believe it by seeing it repeated over and over, or by people who know it's false but continue to repeat it because they are ideologically committed to spreading it as propaganda.
You are not immune to propaganda.
You take your politics way too seriously, you are entitled to your opinion. Readers can make their own minds on the issue.
Tianamen square didn't happen and Russia didn't invade ukraine but if it did, Ukraine deservered anyway ;)
You take your politics way too seriously
I'm glad that you're privileged enough to be able to take them not seriously?
I'm honestly baffled by this statement. Politics should be taken seriously.
Tianamen square didn’t happen and Russia didn’t invade ukraine but if it did, Ukraine deservered anyway ;)
I've never said either of those things but go off with the strawman I guess? I will say however that tiananmen is often misrepresented as something that happened in the square when in fact it was actually several battles that took place over many surrounding streets covering several miles. Confirmed by leaked US Cables.. Not that this diminishes the event, but understanding the truth of what really happened in proper detail is useful.
It takes more courage to stand up for something you believe than to give in to populism. I really do appreciate the points you brought up. I may still disagree with several things about communism, but I have to acknowledge that even in this capitalist society we have many issues that are only resolved by a "heavy handed" policy due to a lot of the greed going on in the west.
Despite this back and forth going on, you have very succinctly got some good points across and I very much hope you stick around for the discussions here. I might not agree with all your philosophy, but conversation with someone like you is a real good thing as opposed to sitting in echo chambers with narrow perspective.
You'll probably enjoy when Hexbear.net federates in 5 days time. Some of these other people won't lmao.
I don't like echo chambers. Reinforcing populism is to the detriment of us all. I'm a free speech absolutist. When you can constructively support your point of view, allow it to be challenged, and then respond with something that really taps into the basis for why your philosophy is solid ground to you, I find that compelling.
"We all want clean water", and on the same token I think a more core freedom is the freedom of expression or access to health and well being. Here we're squabbling over philosophy when there are core tenets we universally agree on, and remembering that common ground for our common humanity should be more valuable than "I told a (insert perjorative here) off". Is communism right for the west? Idk, maybe never, but I look at the countries whom spend the least on healthcare but have higher standards of living and I can't help but think these fictitious dreams of free market and eternal growth have collapsed long ago.
I mean, how about a fucking place to live? I'm amazed that anyone wants to argue capitalist vs communist when we have bizarre issues that are fucking ruining the lives of hundreds of millions of people in just the US and someone wants to get hung up on hating on tankies.
I liked you until the "free speech absolutist" remark. Nazis should have been rounded up and put through re-education a long time ago. Call it rehabilitation if that appeals more to lib sensibilities.
Liberal lack of action on this has taken it past the point of no return and now the only possible outcome is a violent one. It was possible to contain it, had sources of radicalisation been suppressed and the affected fixed, but now it's impossible, there are simply too many fascists.
I find the idea that you think marginalised people like myself should just exchange ideas with the people that want to exterminate us repulsive.
“We all want clean water”, and on the same token I think a more core freedom is the freedom of expression or access to health and well being. Here we’re squabbling over philosophy when there are core tenets we universally agree on, and remembering that common ground for our common humanity should be more valuable than “I told a (insert perjorative here) off”.
We don't universally agree on this. The capitalists do NOT believe that access to water is a right, nor food for that matter. They believe fundamentally in the ideology of "if you don't do work that enriches me, you do not deserve to have these things that you need to survive".
I mean, how about a fucking place to live?
Yes they don't believe in that either. These aren't "bizarre issues", you're missing the fact that they fundamentally don't believe you should have these things unless it involves enriching them in the process. And that they fundamentally believe people should die if they don't want to do that. This is the core of their ideology.
I find the idea that you think marginalised people like myself should just exchange ideas with the people that want to exterminate us repulsive.
I can completely understand the apprehension, but the way we tear down the walls of hate and xenophobia is by talking. You're courage to hold fast to your core tenets will eventually command respect and persuasion far more so than sequestering yourself to an echo chamber where you're popular but convincing no one. Having the temerity to stand there against the childish backlash but maintain your position is far more respectable.
As for the remarks about clean water and a place to live, I think many of us are just tricked. In the west we glorify the founding fathers, while at the same time turning a blind eye to the slavery they encouraged. John Adams was a big proponent of a concentrated federal government, and even favored a monarchy before George Washington abdicated the Presidency. Another funny thing about US history was the way we went to the French to throw off our own monarchy, only to ignore our French allies when they overthrew their own monarchy. The US turned a blind eye when they asked us for help and support.
As to the relevance of this as it relates to the ideals of capitalists, you're right in many regards. The billionaire class wants our tribute, and it's not about them wanting us dead if we don't give it, rather they just want their enrichment with the national welfare as of being just no consequence to them. It's our own apathy, and the seductive promises of capitalist monetary structure. "You'll never become a billionaire in a communist country" and the people just eat it up, knowing full well they won't become a billionaire in any country regardless.
I think you and much of humanity are actually all on the same page, if we (we as in, brainwashed pro-capitalist and free market people, not necessarily us in this discussion) can just cut the bullshit of false ideologies and just listen to what another has to say.
Getting people to listen over here in Europe is relatively easy. Getting americans to listen is incredibly difficult. After multiple red scares and a cultural legacy of immense amounts of propaganda they are far more resistant to hearing basic facts, their brains are filled with false shit, and they performatively do things to show how good and moral they are (like the tankie shit), actively helping capitalists prevent people from hearing leftist thought. There are good books that do a lot of deprogramming, Blackshirts and Reds takes like 2 hours to read and deprograms people from all that shit immediately. The problem there is also that americans don't read, and 21% of americans are illiterate making it impossible to reach a lot of them through this method. I suspect this is also responsible for much of the reading-comprehension errors I see everyday from them on social media. Video works, but is a medium that requires a far greater amount of skill than writing books so we have far fewer people doing it. The boys at /r/thedeprogram podcast being probably the best at the moment, hakim, JT/secondthought and yugopnik.
Come on duderino.
I'm just curious how anyone should have known you're not a man.
From the multiple other times I've said so in this thread, and from the other times I've told this guy who regularly does this. It's not the first.
Either way you shouldn't be defaulting to male.
No body cares if you're a man or a woman. Get over it.
I care. It's not difficult to get it right.
Nobody knows what you are. Expecting people to know you're a women on a forum with zero information either way is stupid.
"Oh, thier name is Lenins2ndCat. Obviously a woman.".
You brought politics into this discussion. You got called for having unsavory post history praising mass murders. If you are eastern European, that's a very weird position to take. I am guessing they didn't raise or you are too dense to realize what was done there.
I doubt any here is an ally of the pigs in blue, so really you derailed this discussion by inserted you shiti politics.
I just don't get how adult men still fall for daddy worship on either side. 21sr century problems requires modern solutions, not repeating same clown history and sinping for dead clowns daddies.
I am not a man. Stop misgendering me. This is the second fucking time in this thread.
I just said we're the ones that we've been saying this forever, and linked to some further reading.
I've never praised "mass murderers". Get a grip.
No it isn't. You have a warped view of what eastern europe believes because you see us as caricatures to use as a political weapon. I have gone over this in the past, there is a very large amount of positivity towards the soviet union here:
7 out of 11 countries believe the end of the USSR harmed their countries rather than benefited them
Hungary: 72% of Hungarians say they are worse off today economically than under communism
Romania: 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism
Germany: more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR
28 percent of Czechs say they were better off under the Communist regime
81% of Serbians believe they lived best in Yugoslavia
Majority of Russians
Americans always say this stuff about europe because their brains are riddled with red scare brainworms and are completely devoid of any knowledge or understanding of what the left in Europe actually thinks because Americans do not have any experience with a left, they don't have one.
Being an adult woman into daddy worship ain't any better but OK.
OK we are using trust me bros surveys to justify USSR crimes now?
I am sure every country will have their bootlickers. You know those regims required plenty of collaborators to operate, I am sure they would still be simping for the good olds days when they were in charge.
Serb and russian example is disingenous also since their dear 'countries" lost a whole bunch of second class citizens that they liked to exploit for profit and mass murder fun.
Proper polling by some of the most respected institutes in the world isn't "trust me bro".
You can't dismiss actual evidence when it's presented to you just because it doesn't confirm what you want it to. I understand that you have this impression because it's what you've seen far right american losers repeat in reddit comment sections thousands of times over and over and over again, but these comments that you've used to build your worldview are not actually representative of reality. They are anecdotes by either people like yourself who have been led to believe it by seeing it repeated over and over, or by people who know it's false but continue to repeat it because they are ideologically committed to spreading it as propaganda.
You are not immune to propaganda.
You take your politics way too seriously, you are entitled to your opinion. Readers can make their own minds on the issue.
Tianamen square didn't happen and Russia didn't invade ukraine but if it did, Ukraine deservered anyway ;)
I'm glad that you're privileged enough to be able to take them not seriously?
I'm honestly baffled by this statement. Politics should be taken seriously.
I've never said either of those things but go off with the strawman I guess? I will say however that tiananmen is often misrepresented as something that happened in the square when in fact it was actually several battles that took place over many surrounding streets covering several miles. Confirmed by leaked US Cables.. Not that this diminishes the event, but understanding the truth of what really happened in proper detail is useful.
It takes more courage to stand up for something you believe than to give in to populism. I really do appreciate the points you brought up. I may still disagree with several things about communism, but I have to acknowledge that even in this capitalist society we have many issues that are only resolved by a "heavy handed" policy due to a lot of the greed going on in the west.
Despite this back and forth going on, you have very succinctly got some good points across and I very much hope you stick around for the discussions here. I might not agree with all your philosophy, but conversation with someone like you is a real good thing as opposed to sitting in echo chambers with narrow perspective.
You'll probably enjoy when Hexbear.net federates in 5 days time. Some of these other people won't lmao.
I don't like echo chambers. Reinforcing populism is to the detriment of us all. I'm a free speech absolutist. When you can constructively support your point of view, allow it to be challenged, and then respond with something that really taps into the basis for why your philosophy is solid ground to you, I find that compelling.
"We all want clean water", and on the same token I think a more core freedom is the freedom of expression or access to health and well being. Here we're squabbling over philosophy when there are core tenets we universally agree on, and remembering that common ground for our common humanity should be more valuable than "I told a (insert perjorative here) off". Is communism right for the west? Idk, maybe never, but I look at the countries whom spend the least on healthcare but have higher standards of living and I can't help but think these fictitious dreams of free market and eternal growth have collapsed long ago.
I mean, how about a fucking place to live? I'm amazed that anyone wants to argue capitalist vs communist when we have bizarre issues that are fucking ruining the lives of hundreds of millions of people in just the US and someone wants to get hung up on hating on tankies.
I liked you until the "free speech absolutist" remark. Nazis should have been rounded up and put through re-education a long time ago. Call it rehabilitation if that appeals more to lib sensibilities.
Liberal lack of action on this has taken it past the point of no return and now the only possible outcome is a violent one. It was possible to contain it, had sources of radicalisation been suppressed and the affected fixed, but now it's impossible, there are simply too many fascists.
I find the idea that you think marginalised people like myself should just exchange ideas with the people that want to exterminate us repulsive.
We don't universally agree on this. The capitalists do NOT believe that access to water is a right, nor food for that matter. They believe fundamentally in the ideology of "if you don't do work that enriches me, you do not deserve to have these things that you need to survive".
Yes they don't believe in that either. These aren't "bizarre issues", you're missing the fact that they fundamentally don't believe you should have these things unless it involves enriching them in the process. And that they fundamentally believe people should die if they don't want to do that. This is the core of their ideology.
I can completely understand the apprehension, but the way we tear down the walls of hate and xenophobia is by talking. You're courage to hold fast to your core tenets will eventually command respect and persuasion far more so than sequestering yourself to an echo chamber where you're popular but convincing no one. Having the temerity to stand there against the childish backlash but maintain your position is far more respectable.
As for the remarks about clean water and a place to live, I think many of us are just tricked. In the west we glorify the founding fathers, while at the same time turning a blind eye to the slavery they encouraged. John Adams was a big proponent of a concentrated federal government, and even favored a monarchy before George Washington abdicated the Presidency. Another funny thing about US history was the way we went to the French to throw off our own monarchy, only to ignore our French allies when they overthrew their own monarchy. The US turned a blind eye when they asked us for help and support.
As to the relevance of this as it relates to the ideals of capitalists, you're right in many regards. The billionaire class wants our tribute, and it's not about them wanting us dead if we don't give it, rather they just want their enrichment with the national welfare as of being just no consequence to them. It's our own apathy, and the seductive promises of capitalist monetary structure. "You'll never become a billionaire in a communist country" and the people just eat it up, knowing full well they won't become a billionaire in any country regardless.
I think you and much of humanity are actually all on the same page, if we (we as in, brainwashed pro-capitalist and free market people, not necessarily us in this discussion) can just cut the bullshit of false ideologies and just listen to what another has to say.
Getting people to listen over here in Europe is relatively easy. Getting americans to listen is incredibly difficult. After multiple red scares and a cultural legacy of immense amounts of propaganda they are far more resistant to hearing basic facts, their brains are filled with false shit, and they performatively do things to show how good and moral they are (like the tankie shit), actively helping capitalists prevent people from hearing leftist thought. There are good books that do a lot of deprogramming, Blackshirts and Reds takes like 2 hours to read and deprograms people from all that shit immediately. The problem there is also that americans don't read, and 21% of americans are illiterate making it impossible to reach a lot of them through this method. I suspect this is also responsible for much of the reading-comprehension errors I see everyday from them on social media. Video works, but is a medium that requires a far greater amount of skill than writing books so we have far fewer people doing it. The boys at /r/thedeprogram podcast being probably the best at the moment, hakim, JT/secondthought and yugopnik.
Come on duderino.
I'm just curious how anyone should have known you're not a man.
From the multiple other times I've said so in this thread, and from the other times I've told this guy who regularly does this. It's not the first.
Either way you shouldn't be defaulting to male.
No body cares if you're a man or a woman. Get over it.
I care. It's not difficult to get it right.
Nobody knows what you are. Expecting people to know you're a women on a forum with zero information either way is stupid.
"Oh, thier name is Lenins2ndCat. Obviously a woman.".
Give me a break.