We should defederate from lemmynsfw

LollerCorleone@kbin.social to /kbin meta@kbin.social – 164 points –

The mods there have decided to allow underage looking content, skirting close to CP. Unless we want such disgusting stuff on our feed, I think we should defederate from that instance.

Pinging @ernest as well.

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Let's flip that argument: should we all abide by American standards?

No. Kbin is Polish, I think

Yes, the developer of /kbin is Polish.
Lolicon is illegal in Poland.

if this is indeed the case, then this is really the only valid reason to defederate. if it's literally illegal to federate, then it's understandable what must be done. otherwise? no.

So in your mind the only valid reason to not serve child porn to your users is if you happen to be subject to the laws of Poland at the time?

Comments like this alone make me want to leave kbin.

There's like 3 different users with anime pfp going to bat for loli all over the different instances and it's definitely annoying. Like nobody gives a shit that technically this or that. Most people don't want to see it.

For real, I've been trying to learn Japanese on and off, love the country, like lot of its media (albeit not much anime) and I'm absolutely desperate to avoid being associated with those guys.

Most people who aren't nonces recognise fairly instinctively that a sexual image of someone who appears to be a ten year old girl is a pretty noncey thing to both produce and look at, and that finding some level of sexual attraction to someone who looks like a ten year old is pretty noncey. But you know, weebs gonna weeb.

For sure m8. I imagine people like that probably don't get outside much so they don't realize how much distress their 'preferences' actually causes to your average person.

I think it's just that they spend all their time around other people who get off to that shit so they think it's normal and fine.

if you don't want to see it then just block it and move on. no problem.

If something is truly harmful it should be illegal. and if it is illegal, it's grounds to defederate. if something is not illegal and there's no need to make it illegal, then it's fine.

actual child porn is something that causes harm, and thus should be illegal, and thus grounds for defederation.

loli/shota are not child porn. these are words that apply to adults. if loli/shota content OF ADULTS is indeed banned in poland, and kbin is in poland and subject to those laws, then it's understandable that defederation has to occur.

Something tells me though, that adult loli/shota content isn't actually banned in poland. anti loli idiots have been trying to declare it's cp for years now and they're just wrong.

[Polish penal code] Article 202 § 4b penalizes the production, dissemination, presentation, storage or possession of pornographic content depicting the created or processed image of a minor under the age of 18 participating in a sexual activity.

It takes like 2 minutes to look up.

loli/shota do not refer to an age, and lemmynsfw has stated that they ban nsfw images of minors and those who appear underage.

I can't say I know too much about it, but I was pretty sure shota was almost entirely dependent on one of the characters being in grade school or early middle school?

"Loli" can be ambiguous, but I think here it's pretty clear it's meant to refer to drawn characters with bodies typical of around the age of 10-13.

I don't quite know where doujinshi of characters like Betty from Re:Zero would fall, since she's established as quite old but also childlike in appearance and behavior.

but I was pretty sure shota was almost entirely dependent on one of the characters being in grade school or early middle school?

nope. loli/shota don't refer to age.

"Loli" can be ambiguous, but I think here it's pretty clear it's meant to refer to drawn characters with bodies typical of around the age of 10-13.

incorrect, some loli characters can have physically mature adult bodies.

yes, some loli characters can appear childlike, these are banned from lemmynsfw. some loli characters can appear as adults or ambiguously adults, these are allowed on lemmynsfw.

You keep saying that Loli doesn't refer to age but that word itself is derived from "Lolita" which is an "erotic" novel about a middle aged professor being obsessed with a 12-year old child and kidnapping and sexually abusing her. Although from the looks of it, loli content often circumvent child porn laws by using loopholes and giving bullshit explanations like it is just a 100-year old in a child-like body, the overall innuendo of such content seem to be nothing more than sexualising children. Things like that shouldn't be given a platform here.

So if I draw some random character having sex, and then label them as "15 years old", it's now illegal? What kind of insane nonsense is that?

idiots will look at obviously mature anime characters and then cry at the canonical age being 15. but in the same breath cry about characters who are canonically adults merely for looking young/youthful. it's hypocritical and idiotic.

It gets even crazier in the furry world. People arguing over whether the animated bird is under or over 18. It's like wtf.

I don't know any case law, but probably!

I think it's usually not too much of a legal concern, but it's also not uncommon for people to draw lewds of characters from shows that are canonically underage (see: Prisma Ilya, who is 10/11 in that spinoff series, although "18" in other Fate series). That would certainly be illegal.

But either way, it definitely creeps people out, and it's usually best to avoid doing things that make people want to stay away from you like that.

That would certainly be illegal.

If that's the case then the law is nonsense.

and it’s usually best to avoid doing things that make people want to stay away from you like that.

So that means I shouldn't defend anyone doing something legal and without hurting anyone? No thanks

doing something legal

I mean it's explicitly illegal in this case.

But I'm only talking about what's best for lemmynsfw and kbin. I don't personally think loli/shota porn is particularly dangerous for children (and, if anything, potentially gives those people a non-harmful constructive outlet) but I also don't get to choose which pearls most people decide to clutch.

Maybe it's illegal where you live. But that's on you. Lots of things are stupidly illegal in lots of places. Do we ban those everywhere too?

The place where you live is less relevant than the place where kbin lives. The servers are bound by the law of the country where they exist. If something on kbin violates Iranian law, no big deal. If something on kbin violates Polish law, big deal. If it violates US law but not Polish law, that's only a big deal if you as a user are US based.

Fwiw I'm in this thread for discussing policies of Lemmy instances, not ethics of rule of law.

We should defederate from https://kbin.social/m/piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com instread of celebrate it, piracy is illegal like, worldwide

So what illegal things should be supported in kbin and which don't?

technically dbzer0 doesn't break any laws, and neither does lemmynsfw lmfao. people crying "it's illegal" are just wrong. and if you want to go the illegal route, then look at how dprk bans self-hosting, or how the middle east bans lgbt and atheist topics. should we defederate with any instance that has an lgbt or atheist group, due to those being illegal in the middle east?

Ernest is Polish, and the server is in Germany. Which, for what it's worth, is another reason why any Nazi shit also needs to to be blocked at the server level, too.

is another reason why any Nazi shit also needs to to be blocked at the server level, too.

It's ok to block Nazi shit. Nazi ideology hurts real life people after all

beehaw's ideology hurts real life people as well. should we defederate from them?

Yes. that's the main reason I did not opened an account on lemmy or their instances (I've been searching a reddit alternative way before the API debacle happened)

lol why even bother with a federated service if you wanna defederate from everyone and have particular strict moderation in a singular style? just go join a regular site at that point?

alternatively you can start your own instance if you feel the existing ones aren't federating in the way you'd like.

just go join a regular site at that point?

I did not found a regular reddit alternative. (Well, yes, I found one, tildes, but the owner requires people beg for invitations via mail, and I'm not going to do that)