And if they protested people commuting into a city, a huge source of global emissions, they'd be criticized for that too. People always manage to label protests as the wrong time/place. What they really mean is "protest is fine as long as no one, especially me, is asked to actually pay attention to it."
And if they protested people commuting into a city, a huge source of global emissions, they’d be criticized for that too.
May, just maybe, those aren't the only two choices. Maybe they could also protest in front of offices of politicians and actually reach the people who can change anything.
Yes, why has no one tried that before, 😂
Greenpeace recently protested on top of British PM Rishi Sunak's private mansion while he was away. And they still got swamped with "YoU cAnT pRoTeSt LiKe tHaT" and people coming up with the most contrived reasons to say they are hypocritical.
It literally does not matter how these people protests, people will always say they are doing it the wrong way, because chuds dont actually mean it when they say that. They simply dont want them to protest at all, so they can pretend its not happening.
while he was away.
That's the problem.
???
And maybe, just maybe, the protesters should have a goal of not only getting their message out but winning people over to their side. Maybe a goal of gaining support.
I don’t think this strategy of “annoy as many people as you can” will succeed in gaining any positive attention
What if you want to make a movement lose support? Could you then do this as a tactic to hurt a cause?
100%. The moment you point out that this isn’t the way to go you’re instantly seen as the bad one, that you don’t want to be inconvenienced. It’s so dumb.
People have done that but the publicity isn't nearly as large as a globally televised event.
That’s a fair point yeah, I guess the publicity does help
Any publicity is good publicity, huh? Here’s a data point that says “nope”
I have this big thing I love to go into where I list dozens of better ways of getting media attention and starting dialog, one of the ideas is a big group of well organised people going to clean train stations and educate people on why trains are more climate friendly than cars and why that's important...
Talked up a lot of people involved in and supporting direct action and they all say one of two things 'i don't have time for this' or 'yeah sounds great but I'm going to stick with things that haven't been working for decades thanks'
I really have come to belive that for most people in these things the environment is just an excuse for attention seeking, or the support of these groups acts as a way of telling themselves 'we try so hard but nothing changes' because they don't actually want change, they just want a way of separating themselves from the guilt of consumerism.
It's like the chorus of people saying that it's corporations that use all the plastic, like the list of top ten plastic uses isn't just a list of companies that make products everyone uses - coke is in the list for example, they don't have a massive pile of plastic bottles to swim in like Scrooge McDuck nor do they have some magic power that forces people to buy their drinks. Working together we could change the world, but no one wants to change they just want a moment of self importance and an excuse for being part of it.
You know what that actually sounds like a very cool idea. I am sure I would get in trouble here in Germany for doing that, because how dare I put cleaning products on something I don't own, but it's a very cool idea nonetheless
Less trouble than blocking a road, and if they did that would be a long running news story 'the sixteen people arrested for cleaning a train station...' it's an attention grabber.
The idea makes a lot of sense in the principal of satyagraha, like Gandhi's salt march - creating a scene to force them to respond and show their true colours. What politican is going to speak against a movement like that? Especially if the cleaning protests have popular support because they've been done respectfully and with great care. It gives the politicans that support green measures a far better position to express their opinions 'people care about the planet so much they're willing to risk jail just to clean a train station and try to get people away from cars, it's our duty as legislators...' it's already a powerful speech.
I daydream for hours about different ways it could work, the most important thing is that commuters aren't disadvantaged or annoyed by it - I'd have small cleaning teams with a member tasked with making sure the team is out the way and I'd make sure they all know the station so they can direct people, help with their bags, etc. The other important thing would be that there are people able to engage in friendly conversation about important issues, why public transport is so important and what other things are important.. directing them to prepared resources and climate news, even better if they can make it fun for the people using the trains - something to talk about and almost crow over with their car driving colleagues 'the journey in was great, station looks amazing and while we waited they were doing a funny puppet show explaining the situation with shell poisoning the Niger Delta... How was traffic?'
I really do think it would be a far better way of spreading the message than throwing paint at much loved artworks or ruining people's cycle races. Those are so easy to ignore and make conversation hard but something like this or other acts of radical and revolutionary altruism could really get people thinking.
And if they protested people commuting into a city, a huge source of global emissions, they'd be criticized for that too. People always manage to label protests as the wrong time/place. What they really mean is "protest is fine as long as no one, especially me, is asked to actually pay attention to it."
May, just maybe, those aren't the only two choices. Maybe they could also protest in front of offices of politicians and actually reach the people who can change anything.
Yes, why has no one tried that before, 😂
Greenpeace recently protested on top of British PM Rishi Sunak's private mansion while he was away. And they still got swamped with "YoU cAnT pRoTeSt LiKe tHaT" and people coming up with the most contrived reasons to say they are hypocritical.
It literally does not matter how these people protests, people will always say they are doing it the wrong way, because chuds dont actually mean it when they say that. They simply dont want them to protest at all, so they can pretend its not happening.
That's the problem.
???
And maybe, just maybe, the protesters should have a goal of not only getting their message out but winning people over to their side. Maybe a goal of gaining support.
I don’t think this strategy of “annoy as many people as you can” will succeed in gaining any positive attention
What if you want to make a movement lose support? Could you then do this as a tactic to hurt a cause?
100%. The moment you point out that this isn’t the way to go you’re instantly seen as the bad one, that you don’t want to be inconvenienced. It’s so dumb.
People have done that but the publicity isn't nearly as large as a globally televised event.
That’s a fair point yeah, I guess the publicity does help
Any publicity is good publicity, huh? Here’s a data point that says “nope”
I have this big thing I love to go into where I list dozens of better ways of getting media attention and starting dialog, one of the ideas is a big group of well organised people going to clean train stations and educate people on why trains are more climate friendly than cars and why that's important...
Talked up a lot of people involved in and supporting direct action and they all say one of two things 'i don't have time for this' or 'yeah sounds great but I'm going to stick with things that haven't been working for decades thanks'
I really have come to belive that for most people in these things the environment is just an excuse for attention seeking, or the support of these groups acts as a way of telling themselves 'we try so hard but nothing changes' because they don't actually want change, they just want a way of separating themselves from the guilt of consumerism.
It's like the chorus of people saying that it's corporations that use all the plastic, like the list of top ten plastic uses isn't just a list of companies that make products everyone uses - coke is in the list for example, they don't have a massive pile of plastic bottles to swim in like Scrooge McDuck nor do they have some magic power that forces people to buy their drinks. Working together we could change the world, but no one wants to change they just want a moment of self importance and an excuse for being part of it.
You know what that actually sounds like a very cool idea. I am sure I would get in trouble here in Germany for doing that, because how dare I put cleaning products on something I don't own, but it's a very cool idea nonetheless
Less trouble than blocking a road, and if they did that would be a long running news story 'the sixteen people arrested for cleaning a train station...' it's an attention grabber.
The idea makes a lot of sense in the principal of satyagraha, like Gandhi's salt march - creating a scene to force them to respond and show their true colours. What politican is going to speak against a movement like that? Especially if the cleaning protests have popular support because they've been done respectfully and with great care. It gives the politicans that support green measures a far better position to express their opinions 'people care about the planet so much they're willing to risk jail just to clean a train station and try to get people away from cars, it's our duty as legislators...' it's already a powerful speech.
I daydream for hours about different ways it could work, the most important thing is that commuters aren't disadvantaged or annoyed by it - I'd have small cleaning teams with a member tasked with making sure the team is out the way and I'd make sure they all know the station so they can direct people, help with their bags, etc. The other important thing would be that there are people able to engage in friendly conversation about important issues, why public transport is so important and what other things are important.. directing them to prepared resources and climate news, even better if they can make it fun for the people using the trains - something to talk about and almost crow over with their car driving colleagues 'the journey in was great, station looks amazing and while we waited they were doing a funny puppet show explaining the situation with shell poisoning the Niger Delta... How was traffic?'
I really do think it would be a far better way of spreading the message than throwing paint at much loved artworks or ruining people's cycle races. Those are so easy to ignore and make conversation hard but something like this or other acts of radical and revolutionary altruism could really get people thinking.