Sorry, but these people must have been living under a rock (which actually is quite likely as we are talking about Russia).
Telegram has control over the content and channels and has been working with governments in the past.
This is what happens when western people read such articles. They turn into denial. Telegram is basically the safest place in Russia's digital space.
these people must have been living under a rock
Russians are very advanced when it comes to the internet. They spend more time in it because real life sucks more than in other countries.
Telegram has control over the content and channels
Doesn't mean anything. Especially for groups who just want to communicate.
has been working with governments in the past
There is not enough evidence to support the probability of telegram making steps to make finding gay people easier for Russian authorities.
Telegram requires a phone number. That's a none starter for me. There's a huge number of services that don't. This might as well be a honey pot for trapping more lgbt people. Russia has used dating services before in their crackdowns.
Telegram requires a phone number.
It does and it sucks. But you can still have adequate protection because knowing your number won't help authorities much. They have to find you in some group they deem illegal for anything to happen. They must find your account first, then add your number and see if that's your account. Telegram did some improvements on that issue at some point, so it should take much longer and more resources to do.
Also it's relatively easy to get a sim card not tied to your passport in Russia. Also using a cheap sim from another country is also an option, since you can set up a cloud password so that even if someone has your sim they won't access your data fully.
This might as well be a honey pot for trapping more lgbt people.
A service requirement of a telephone number is not a honey spot. But sure some groups are honey spots. Yes, authorities mainly operate within the service. It can get to overwhelming extent but that mist mean they don't have real backdoor-like access.
Just buy a burner. Use it once to sign up and throw it away.
That only works to avoid creeps online. A government would have the resources to track down the paper trail of who bought the burner.
Not when you pay with cash a few towns away.
I can go to a supermarket and buy a phone and SIM for less than £10.
Sound simpler to just use Signal or an encrypted email.
Signal requires a phone number, I use Signal.
How does encrypted email work when we are discussing messaging platforms?
Do you trust using third party encryption keys or are you going to get everybody you meet to learn PGP.
That's probably why I never got a Signal account. Normally, I would point to FireChat, but that was discontinued. Looks like Mesh.im is a replacement? I'll have to look more into it. Encrypted, p2p, and mesh connections via LAN means it can't be shutdown if the internet gets restricted during protests.
are you going to get everybody you meet to learn PGP.
When the alternative is to risk getting sent to the front line as a bullet sponge, yeah. Then again, any lgbt people practicing proper infosec isn't going to be visible to surveys like this.
You’re missing a fundamental issue with these suggestions and even signal. In that the vast majority of people don’t care.
It’s great being on signal with two of my friends whilst the other 50 use WhatsApp which I refuse to do.
oh, I know people don't care.
Telegram is basically the safest place in Russia's digital space.
Yep. Alternatives are:
Mailru trash - comrade major knows everything
VK trash - comrade major knows everything
Whatsapp - comrade major knows your phone number, which means he knows who you are
Everything else is not popular.
these people must have been living under a rock
Russians are very advanced when it comes to the internet.
Putin does try to bring Russia into stone age. Russians are very advanced thanks for 1990-2016 period when goverment didn't try to destroy internet.
They spend more time in it because real life sucks more than in other countries.
This is true. We probably have second worst healthcare after America.
Is signal not a viable option? Or can you still not use it without leaking your phone-number?
Not sure about Signal. I remember times when it was phone number focused. Having visible phone number in Russia means FSB might knock on your door.
The only thing better than telegram I can think of and relatively popular is Matrix. But even in my university I don't know about anyone else, who uses it.
Russians are very advanced when it comes to the internet.
I do not doubt that for marginalized groups such as the LGBTQ comunity, who have to watch every step they do. But given the restrictions placed on everyday online services in Russia I'd assume the average citizen has harder time.
Doesn't mean anything. Especially for groups who just want to communicate.
A subset of society that's marginalized at best and killed at the worst doesn't care about who can read and influence their communication? That seems highly shortsighted to me.
There is not enough evidence to support the probability of telegram making steps to make finding gay people easier for Russian authorities.
That we know of. Given that the company behind Telegram has been involved in various sketchy situations I wouldn't bet my wellbeing on a service that might or might not share information with a corrupt government..
A subset of society that's marginalized at best and killed at the worst doesn't care about who can read and influence their communication? That seems highly shortsighted to me.
That we know of. Given that the company behind Telegram has been involved in various sketchy situations I wouldn't bet my wellbeing on a service that might or might not share information with a corrupt government..
Share informarion with Putin? No, very unlikely. Ban opposition channels during elections? Confirmed yes.
Apple banned opposition's apps durung elections too. And Google.
I'd assume the average citizen has harder time.
Average Russian knows more about VPN than most others because of tons of restrictions. And telegram only helps with that by providing workaround and info about proxies.
doesn't care about who can read and influence their communication
Groups chats are private by default, you have to change that by yourself to make it public. There is no evidence that anyone else would be able to read it whatsoever while it's private. The only danger comes from actual members who may invite unwanted people or share screenshots of the conversation.
the company behind Telegram has been involved in various sketchy situations
That's the only thing you have. Any other company that could provide a service with similar features would have to be involved in very similar sketchy situations and there is no way around that. Signal doesn't care about public communication features which puts it into a whole different weight category. Also signal would hardly care to help Russians restore access if it gets blocked.
I wouldn't bet my wellbeing
Not surprising. You're clearly not Russian.
You must be in Russia. I am basing this on your writing style. Although your English is good, you seem Russian.
Telegram isn't always private, but it does allow people to blend in with other users. There are other more private Apps, like SimpleXChat, but with fewer connections to a SimpleXChat server LGBT people could be afraid they would stand out if they all started using it.
It's not a matter of finding a more private app. It's about keeping a group and have an opportunity to expand it, reach more people who would need to be a part of it. Any app in Russia that is not telegram would be too obscure for that. For now it's a perfect balance between privacy and reach.
If you think Telegram isn’t a project by the Kremlin, I have a nice plot of land to sell to you. On Uranus.
There's a Russian guy I know in some... adult roleplay circles.., kinkiest chap I know. I worry about him... He tried telling me Telegram was "safer", didn't know what he meant.
He meant it is not controlled by FSB like VK and mailru shit and doesn't show phone number to entire world like whatsapp.
Telegramm and "safe"?
Sorry, but these people must have been living under a rock (which actually is quite likely as we are talking about Russia).
Telegram has control over the content and channels and has been working with governments in the past.
This is what happens when western people read such articles. They turn into denial. Telegram is basically the safest place in Russia's digital space.
Russians are very advanced when it comes to the internet. They spend more time in it because real life sucks more than in other countries.
Doesn't mean anything. Especially for groups who just want to communicate.
There is not enough evidence to support the probability of telegram making steps to make finding gay people easier for Russian authorities.
Telegram requires a phone number. That's a none starter for me. There's a huge number of services that don't. This might as well be a honey pot for trapping more lgbt people. Russia has used dating services before in their crackdowns.
It does and it sucks. But you can still have adequate protection because knowing your number won't help authorities much. They have to find you in some group they deem illegal for anything to happen. They must find your account first, then add your number and see if that's your account. Telegram did some improvements on that issue at some point, so it should take much longer and more resources to do.
Also it's relatively easy to get a sim card not tied to your passport in Russia. Also using a cheap sim from another country is also an option, since you can set up a cloud password so that even if someone has your sim they won't access your data fully.
A service requirement of a telephone number is not a honey spot. But sure some groups are honey spots. Yes, authorities mainly operate within the service. It can get to overwhelming extent but that mist mean they don't have real backdoor-like access.
Just buy a burner. Use it once to sign up and throw it away.
That only works to avoid creeps online. A government would have the resources to track down the paper trail of who bought the burner.
Not when you pay with cash a few towns away.
I can go to a supermarket and buy a phone and SIM for less than £10.
Sound simpler to just use Signal or an encrypted email.
Signal requires a phone number, I use Signal.
How does encrypted email work when we are discussing messaging platforms?
Do you trust using third party encryption keys or are you going to get everybody you meet to learn PGP.
That's probably why I never got a Signal account. Normally, I would point to FireChat, but that was discontinued. Looks like Mesh.im is a replacement? I'll have to look more into it. Encrypted, p2p, and mesh connections via LAN means it can't be shutdown if the internet gets restricted during protests.
When the alternative is to risk getting sent to the front line as a bullet sponge, yeah. Then again, any lgbt people practicing proper infosec isn't going to be visible to surveys like this.
You’re missing a fundamental issue with these suggestions and even signal. In that the vast majority of people don’t care.
It’s great being on signal with two of my friends whilst the other 50 use WhatsApp which I refuse to do.
oh, I know people don't care.
Yep. Alternatives are:
Everything else is not popular.
Putin does try to bring Russia into stone age. Russians are very advanced thanks for 1990-2016 period when goverment didn't try to destroy internet.
This is true. We probably have second worst healthcare after America.
Is signal not a viable option? Or can you still not use it without leaking your phone-number?
Not sure about Signal. I remember times when it was phone number focused. Having visible phone number in Russia means FSB might knock on your door.
The only thing better than telegram I can think of and relatively popular is Matrix. But even in my university I don't know about anyone else, who uses it.
I do not doubt that for marginalized groups such as the LGBTQ comunity, who have to watch every step they do. But given the restrictions placed on everyday online services in Russia I'd assume the average citizen has harder time.
A subset of society that's marginalized at best and killed at the worst doesn't care about who can read and influence their communication? That seems highly shortsighted to me.
That we know of. Given that the company behind Telegram has been involved in various sketchy situations I wouldn't bet my wellbeing on a service that might or might not share information with a corrupt government..
Share informarion with Putin? No, very unlikely. Ban opposition channels during elections? Confirmed yes.
Apple banned opposition's apps durung elections too. And Google.
Average Russian knows more about VPN than most others because of tons of restrictions. And telegram only helps with that by providing workaround and info about proxies.
Groups chats are private by default, you have to change that by yourself to make it public. There is no evidence that anyone else would be able to read it whatsoever while it's private. The only danger comes from actual members who may invite unwanted people or share screenshots of the conversation.
That's the only thing you have. Any other company that could provide a service with similar features would have to be involved in very similar sketchy situations and there is no way around that. Signal doesn't care about public communication features which puts it into a whole different weight category. Also signal would hardly care to help Russians restore access if it gets blocked.
Not surprising. You're clearly not Russian.
You must be in Russia. I am basing this on your writing style. Although your English is good, you seem Russian.
Telegram isn't always private, but it does allow people to blend in with other users. There are other more private Apps, like SimpleXChat, but with fewer connections to a SimpleXChat server LGBT people could be afraid they would stand out if they all started using it.
It's not a matter of finding a more private app. It's about keeping a group and have an opportunity to expand it, reach more people who would need to be a part of it. Any app in Russia that is not telegram would be too obscure for that. For now it's a perfect balance between privacy and reach.
If you think Telegram isn’t a project by the Kremlin, I have a nice plot of land to sell to you. On Uranus.
There's a Russian guy I know in some... adult roleplay circles.., kinkiest chap I know. I worry about him... He tried telling me Telegram was "safer", didn't know what he meant.
He meant it is not controlled by FSB like VK and mailru shit and doesn't show phone number to entire world like whatsapp.