Newbie with questions about Debian

Bobson_Dugnutt [he/him]@hexbear.net to Linux@lemmy.ml – 12 points –

I got an old Windows 7 laptop that was going to be thrown out and decided to put Linux on it (see previous thread here). Most people suggested I go with the latest stable version of Debian, so that's what I installed. I've mostly used Windows, but I do have some experience with Ubuntu.

The installation went smoothly, but I've had a few problems getting it set up to my liking:

  1. I can't figure out how to setup flatpak. Everything seems to be working fine until I enter the last line in the terminal:

flatpak remote-add --if-not-exists flathub https://dl.flathub.org/repo/flathub.flatpakrepo

I hit enter and nothing happens. No error message or anything. I restarted the computer but flatpak doesn't work, either through the software center or the flatpak website. I found a few forum posts with the same problem, but no solutions.

  1. I somehow set it up so that my username is not the super user, so I have to type a password in the terminal every time I want to use sudo. Is there a way to fix this without a clean install?

  2. I somehow set up the hard drive partitions so that the OS is on an encrypted partition, so I have to put in a password for the BIOS to boot up. Is there a way to fix this without a clean install?

  3. I'm used to a desktop interface with a toolbar/start menu that I can pin frequently-used programs to, but with Debian it seems like I need to click "Activities" to do anything. Is there a way to set up the interface so it's more like Windows in that regard?

  4. If I need to do a clean install, I'm thinking of switching to Ubuntu, since I'm more familiar with the interface. Is there any reason why I should stick with Debian? I've heard some people trashing Ubuntu but I'm not sure why. Is Debian better for older hardware?

Edit: Thanks for all the knowledgeable replies. I did a fresh install of Debian 12 (64 bit) with KDE and it seems to have resolved all my problems. Although it's a little slow and buggy, I've had to reboot it twice. I'll try a lightweight DE if that continues.

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Number 2 is by design. Running as root is extremely dangerous, and passwordless sudo is not much better. You can, of course, allow sudo without a password by editing the /etc/sudoers file, but be concious of the security implications (any program you run would essentially have full access to everything, without you ever knowing).

I can't figure out how to setup flatpak. Everything seems to be working fine until I enter the last line in the terminal:

Assuming you've installed flatpak correctly (sudo apt install flatpak gnome-software-plugin-flatpak)

in a terminal, type flatpak remotes. If it lists flathub, you're good.

Try installing a random app like flatpak install flathub de.haeckerfelix.Shortwave

It shoud work. If it doesn't, post your logs.

I have to type a password in the terminal every time I want to use sudo

This is the intended behavior and should not be changed, it's a basic security feature. Once you've finished setting up you system, you shouldn't need sudo everyday anyway, except for updating/upgrading the system.

I'm used to a desktop interface with a toolbar/start menu that I can pin frequently-used programs to, but with Debian it seems like I need to click "Activities" to do anything. Is there a way to set up the interface so it's more like Windows in that regard?

Assuming you're using Gnome, this is easy to solve using Extensions. First if it's not installed already on Firefox, install Gnome Shell Integration. It'll let you manage Gnome Extensions directly from https://extensions.gnome.org/

Then, install dash-to-panel for a "windows-style" experience, or dash-to-dock for a "macos-style" experience.

After that, you can go wild on the extensions you want to use ;)

If I need to do a clean install, I'm thinking of switching to Ubuntu, since I'm more familiar with the interface.

Don't. Ubuntu will teach you nothing but the Ubuntu way. Debian is as Standard Linux as conceivable. If your only concern is the Ubuntu-style interface, configuring dash to panel to appear on the left side is all you need.

I tried "flatpak remotes" and it listed flathub. I also tried "echo $?" after installation and it returns 0. So it should be working.

But when I try to install Shortwave in the terminal it says:

error: Nothing matches de.haeckerfelix.Shortwave in remote flathub

I also can't find Shortwave in the software center.

Edit: I wonder if this is because it's a 32 bit OS?

Oh yes that's probably it, flathub doesn't support 32 bits architectures anymore.

Why did you choose this architecture? Almost all x86 CPU architectures from the last 20 years are 64 bits, you should reinstall using the AMD64 image. This will solve a lot of issues and insure you get the most of your hardware.

I was under the impression that it's old enough to only work with the 32 bit OS. I'll double check that and try installing the 64 bit version if I can.

If the 32 bit version is all that will run, am I shit out of luck when it comes to running any modern software?

I've just googled Dell XPS M1530 and it seems like it shipped with a Core 2 Duo CPU, which is 64 bit.

For reference, the last mainstream 32 bit desktop processors were launched over 20 years ago. As a rule, if you're trying to run a 32 bit machine in this day and age it is probably an antique, and running modern software on it would not be all that sensible even if you could.

What's your CPU? 99% sure that w7 era CPUs are all 64 bits.

It's an intel core 2 duo t9300, which I'm pretty sure is 64 bit. I guess I was confused because it was previously running a 32 bit version of windows 7.

Edit: I'm not sure if it's amd64 or aarch64 or mips64. I think it's amd.

Yeah it supports amd64 :)

Fun fact: AMD started out making licenced products based on of Intel's x86 architecture, and in the early 2000s the roles were reversed when intel had to licence AMD's 64 bits extension of this architecture.

aarch64 are for ARM processors like the one in your phone, mips64 are embedded processors most likely found in a car or a router.

Thanks! I did a fresh install of Debian (64 bit) with KDE, and it seems to be working for me, except it's already frozen up and needed a reboot twice. I might go with a more lightweight DE if that keeps happening.

I can’t figure out how to setup flatpak. Everything seems to be working fine until I enter the last line in the terminal:
flatpak remote-add --if-not-exists flathub dl.flathub.org/repo/flathub.flatpakrepo

Hard to help without logs or error messages. Maybe you could run the command with --verbose flag to see if it prints out something that might help?

I somehow set it up so that my username is not the super user, so I have to type a password in the terminal every time I want to use sudo. Is there a way to fix this without a clean install?

This is default behavior and probably shouldn't be changed. It's a good idea to set up your normal user without root privileges and it's a good idea to ask for authentication credentials whenever you need to elevate privileges.

If you really want to remove the password, you can follow the guide here: https://linuxhandbook.com/sudo-without-password/

I somehow set up the hard drive partitions so that the OS is on an encrypted partition, so I have to put in a password for the BIOS to boot up. Is there a way to fix this without a clean install?

Again, if you want encrypted disk, then this is actually good behavior, but in case you want to decrypt the disk without reinstall - it's possible, but not entirely simple or newbie friendly procedure, you need to know a bit about disk devices and mounting drives, for reference, see: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/60971/how-to-remove-luks-encryption

I’m used to a desktop interface with a toolbar/start menu that I can pin frequently-used programs to, but with Debian it seems like I need to click “Activities” to do anything. Is there a way to set up the interface so it’s more like Windows in that regard?

Debian comes with Gnome Desktop by default. There are many other desktop environments, if you want to test them. See: https://wiki.debian.org/DesktopEnvironment

You can also tweak and change Gnome with addons and extensions to suit your needs - see https://extensions.gnome.org/

Is there any reason why I should stick with Debian? I’ve heard some people trashing Ubuntu but I’m not sure why. Is Debian better for older hardware?

The same linux kernel (in various versions) is running underneath all the distributions, so it's really just a matter of preference. Since you're new, hop around - try Ubuntu, Mint, Pop!, Fedora, Arch and everything else to see what you prefer.

Have fun!

Lots of people gave great advice. Let me sum a bit of that up.

Flatpak

  1. No error means success. You might want to install gnome-software-plugin-flatpak to make it available in gnome-software. I'd advise against using flatpaks if you also have the software available in the debian repositories. Always use the package manager instead, when possible. Those packages are maintained by the debian community and tied into the rest of the system. Flatpaks are not.

sudo

  1. What would you like? That is kinda intended behaviour and an integral part of security. But you can have it remember the password for some time. Or ask for a different password.

FDE

  1. I think a clean install is the quickest way to fix this. You can also get the other things right while at it.

DE

  1. You can choose the desktop environment while installing Linux. You chose the default Gnome Desktop. It's designed more like Apple or Android tablets. I quite like it. You don't have that menu blocking space on the monitor. Instead you just bump your mouse to that top left corner or press the windows key and you have a fullscreen menu with your favorites. You can also directly start typing the first letters of the application you want and hit enter and start is, without lifting your fingers from the keyboard and it's way quicker and more streamlined than clicking on things in a windows start menu. You can have an addidional dock somewhere at the left or the bottom with an additional gnome extension like this or what other people suggested. But if you'd like it like windows, why don't you try the KDE destop? I think you'd be more comfortable with that if you're looking for something alike the windows experience.

Ubuntu

  1. Ubuntu regularly does some stupid things. I've been using Debian for quite some time. I suppose the differences for you are minor anyways and you could have it look the same if you found out which gnome quick-launch bar to install or if you used the KDE desktop instead.

I'd advise against using flatpaks if you also have the software available in the debian repositories. Always use the package manager instead, when possible.

Please let me disagree on this. Debian + Flatpaks is actually an awesome combo. Rock solid and super stable base, up to date user facing apps.

Debian's life cycle is awesome for core system stuff, it ensures that once your system runs perfectly, it'll continue to run perfectly for several years without intervention despite always being up to date.

But for user facing apps, it's actually really frustrating when you know there is a bug fix or a feature you need that's been implemented and made available months ago but you're stuck on a 2-year-old version.

It's just, we get so many questions regarding Flatpak from newer users:

  • Why doesn't App A tie into App B?
  • Why doesn't the program tie into my desktop environment?
  • How can I install Addons?
  • Why can't I access files somewhere

And it's just not easy. The Apps/Programs are sandboxed and can't tie into each other unless specifically made for this. Addons need to be put inside of that environment or the program needs to be fitted with some kind of Appstore that incorporates this. You can't just download an addon from github and drag and drop it like the instruction says. New users blame that on Linux. And you need to understand the additional Flatpak permission system.

In my experience these problems have really increased in the last year or so.

Next thing is, you lose what the distro maintainers do for you. They double check that everything works together well and is tied into your desktop. Breaking changes are postponed until the next major releas of the distro. Since you mentioned Debian, they strip tracking behaviour, and most importanly they fix security issues quickly. Once I read about a severe vulnerability in libpng it's often already fixed or takes them like one to three days.

Everytime I have a look at 'flatpak list' I have like 3 different versions of some runtime installed and it takes half a year until the last flatpak app is updated to the release without that vulnerability. And I get that. Programmers of a project mainly code, and maintenance and packaging the stuff isn't necessarily top priority on their agenda. But you as a user are exposed for months and I usually expect exploits to appear in the wild after some weeks.

That may be less of a concern if you install OBS via flatpak or a game. But this would be bad if it's a web-browser or a messenger.

That's why I usually tell people not to use Flatpak. If you know about the consequences and how to handle the sandboxing and get an addon working, go ahead. Maybe subscribe to a mailing list regarding the security vulnerabilities, because that's now your job.

For Debian users there are a few alternatives. You could just mix and match software from 'stable' and 'testing'. That is not recommended, but everyone does it. Second thing: Just install Debian testing and you get a rolling distro. That's what I do and it works great. Well, during the 'freeze' for the next version you will experience some delays until they figure out some library updates and dependencies. But that's alright. [Edit: on second thought: Considering the next comment, maybe I shouldn't recommend that. It works for me but it definitely has some caveats and you need to understand the consequences I didn't mention here and be able to fix the occasional hiccup.]

Or am I too conservative here?

All your points are valid, and I agree with most of them except maybe advising people to use Testing ;)

From a security point of view, Testing is dead last in Debian's vulnerabilities fix order of priorities after SID and Stable, and fixes in general except when the next release is being freezed. I've undergone breaking changes and regressions weekly on Testing, dependency issues that took forever to get fixed, and the year or so I've spent on Testing was miserable. Testing definitely has its purposes, but daily driving it on a laptop should not be one of them.

I understand the issues you've got concerning Flatpaks and how it goes against a distro's philosophy, but I think, from a "normie"'s POV, it's still miles better than the classic "download a random exe from a random website and never bother having to uninstall and reinstall it every week to keep it up-to-date" windows paradigm. Flatpaks are mainly a solution for developers and package maintainers (package once, distribute everywhere), but it benefits the end users. You get to use "the same version as everyone else", always up-to-date whether you're on Debian or on Arch, compiled against a known version of all dependencies so bug reports are more consistent and avoid weird distro-specific behaviors.

Thanks. You're right. I've edited my comment. I shouldn't be advertising testing. And I probably misremember how often I fix a minor hiccup that I forget about 2 days later. And I keep an eye on important programs when they get 'stuck' or I get aware of vulnerabilities and switch to SID or stable with cherry-picked packages. But that requres you to read all the tech news and that's not a safe way to do it regardless.

I agree. Flatpak is lightyears ahead of downloading executables or doing the imfamous 'curl software/install.sh | sudo bash' It is definitely the right tool if your alternative is to download something from a random website or the software isn't packaged in your distro. (And also for proprietary software.)

I think the correct approach is to ask yourself if you really always need the latest releases and newest version of your software. And if it's worth the consequences. Flatpak really makes it so easy and smooth that many people aren't aware it comes with consequences until later. I know everyone always wants everything. Rock stable and tested, bulletproof security and the newest version of everything right away. I do, too. We seem to both like Debian. It's provided me with most things I need for quite some years and it really earned my trust. We all know how the maintenance process works there and how that turns out. Problem is, if I now circumvent what defines Debian, I kinda lose parts of what makes it great. That should be done with some caution. But sometimes it's necessary. Sometimes I want unpackaged software. Sometimes I need the newest features of OBS or Kdenlive. Or FreeCAD did some major restructuring and the Debian version just always crashes once I add a chamfer to my 3D-workpiece and Debian keeps that ancient version in the repository. There's no way around taking matters in your own hand. Also I sometimes keep several versions of browsers around to do some web-development and Flatpak is awesome for things like that.

Maybe I need to provide people with a more nuanced answer the next time someone asks about Flatpak stuff. The main point is probably that you take matters in your own hands at that point and need to be aware of that. It requires you to make case-by-case decisions and have a look at if the specific Flatpak is maintained well. There is no simple answer anymore. With a distro you mainly get what you asked for and you should know if you chose your distro, and with it the way it handles things, for a reason.

Regarding 4; I suppose you're looking for the ArcMenu extension if you wish to continue using GNOME as your Desktop Environment (will be abbreviated to DE from here on). Though GNOME's workflow is considerably different to Windows'. Therefore, you might be interested into looking elsewhere unless you're actually interested to continue GNOME. FWIW, GNOME is one of the most popular and most polished DEs out there, but it's very opinionated; which rub some folk the wrong way. I personally like it, but others might differ on this. Lastly, GNOME is NOT particularly known to be light. Therefore, if you're not happy with how it runs; e.g. frame skips with animations or just high RAM usage overall, then perhaps consider Xfce or Lxqt. If you're not discontent about the performance on GNOME, then you could also consider KDE or Cinnamon as those might 'feel' more 'modern' than the aforementioned Xfce and Lxqt.

Regarding 5; Ubuntu gets a lot of hate due to:

  • how they're forcing Snaps (their in-house universal package manager; therefore a direct competitor to Flatpak) onto its users. So much so that even attempting to install some packages through apt will result in the Snap being installed instead; which is basically unprecedented within the Linux landscape.
  • some mishaps in the past resulted in very bad PR; especially to those that are privacy-conscious and/or F(L)OSS-advocates.

You'd have to get to your own conclusions though. It's probably still the most used distro and therefore you might expect some QoL-features are only found within. If you're inconclusive, just try it out and consider reporting back to us on how it went. Regarding old hardware; the DE is the most important factor anyways.

Thanks! I think I've seen some frame skips, I'll double check and maybe go with a different DE. And having heard all that, I'll keep Ubuntu as a last resort.

I'd like to respond to 3.

My suggestion would be to setup a keyfile to unlock the partition automatically. You can use your EFI partition to store the keyfile, which makes no sense from security perspective; or you can keep it on a usb drive. Machine will ask for password if usb is not present, or boot straight up if it is.

To solve number 4, I need to know the desktop environment you went with. Is it Gnome? If so, there’s a tweak (a Gnome extension) that makes the taskbar stay on screen permanently or appear when you hover over it (kinda like MacOS) and then you just right click a program you’re using in there to pin it to the taskbar

For number 4, consider switching to e.g. KDE which is an alternative desktop environment you can install in Debian.

If you reinstall, consider Kubuntu, which is Ubuntu but with the KDE desktop. Search for screenshots first so you know if it is somwthing you like.

for 1, in linux no output is often indicitive of no problem. To verify if your previous command exited successfully, type 'echo $?' at the command line and if its anything but 0 its an error.

For 3, I do the same but since I'm the only user I auto login so its still just one password to enter to get to a desktop.

How do you setup the auto login?

Depends if you're using a graphical login manager or not. If so, you'll have to search the name of it and 'autologin' in your favourite search engine. Its typically no more then checking a box and adding your username.

I dont use a graphical login manager, I just let it boot up and agetty (from util-linux) logs me directly into my shell (because I added -u ' to the config.). Then my shell profile takes care of starting the graphical environment for me.

Its just personal choice but I dont see any point in a login manager when Im the only one logging in. I understand that it may come as part of the desktop suite though. I prefer to start with nothing and add what I want versus getting everything and removing what I dont want