North Korea's biggest sin is surviving a genocidial war against them by the US, the West simply cannot forgive such transgressions.
Jesus Robert Christ, what other amazing historical tidbits do you have rattling around up there? This is fascinating as hell!
I suppose you support killing millions of Koreans and bombing 70% of Pyongyang? Afterwards sanctioning the country to hell?
We just have to look at how the populations are faring between the two systems. Which population is enjoying a better quality of life? The Koreas are an experiment of the capitalist society versus the central economy. So we can take this data how we like. As far as sanctions go Korea has a land border with both Russia and China, so that should not have been a major factor in the centrally planned economy.
Yes please lets do that. Which system has twice the higher birth rates? Which system has more than twice larger military? Which system is self-sufficient? Which system has preserved their national culture and hasn't degenerated into little USA? Which system survived a genocidial war and being sanctioned by almost the entire world?
The two Koreas are a perfect example indeed, the South is for the degenerate liberals who only care about their access to fast food and porn, while the North is for patriots that wish to preserve their unique culture and way of life.
Great. I agree. Let's open the border between the Koreas and let people self-select.
I agree, just end the military occupation by the US first.
South Korea's perfectly able to disinvite the United States it whenever it wants.
Let's not move the goal post. The theory we're testing is that North Korea is superior to South Korea for the civilians. So we don't need to change anything to test this theory. Just open the border. And let anybody move with no restrictions. That'll help us see which is better for the people.
South Korea’s perfectly able to disinvite the United States it whenever it wants.
Lmao, sure
Let’s not move the goal post. The theory we’re testing is that North Korea is superior to South Korea for the civilians. So we don’t need to change anything to test this theory. Just open the border. And let anybody move with no restrictions. That’ll help us see which is better for the people.
Its not moving any goal posts, remove the hostile precense first. Btw, why do you think South Korea needs to bribe any possible defectors with almost a million dollars? Surely just escaping the horrible North would be enough incentive? Why are there so few North Korean defectors, and even some of them complain how the North was better?
You're making it seem like the country is split only due to the North. As if it is their decision.
I don't see what's wrong with just letting everybody move how they want. Don't pay them at all. See where they move. Why can't we do that experiment?
Ok, we cant do such an experiment though, as neither country allows moving to either one. Tell me, why doesn't South Korea allow their citizens to even enter North Korea? Surely the freedom and liberty loving South Korea should allow this freedom to their citizens, are they not confident in their absolute superiority?
I'm not a politician of that country. But if I had to guess
Reciprocity
Usually open borders between countries requires a bilateral agreement between the countries to allow that movement. So opening the border for people to get stuck in the other country isn't great. And countries typically don't let that happen.
South Koreans certainly can fly to China and then take the land border into North Korea. Nothing stopping that
Excuses, if South Korea was so damn certain of their superiority, they'd allow unrestricted immigration into the North, afterall, isn't this the reverse of what you're saying?
You said sanctioned by the West, not the US. The West didn't start sanctions until 2006. The US wasn't a primary trading partner of any eastern bloc county during the cold war so it wouldn't have made a difference.
The US is the de facto leader of the West, if it embargoes a country, it is embargoed by the West as well.
Show me the proof that members of the West other than the US sanctioned North Korea between 1991 and 2006.
Even Russia sanctioned North Korea starting in 2013 for their behavior.
Show me the proof that members of the West other than the US sanctioned North Korea between 1991 and 2006.
Ah i see the goal posts have moved. Why don't you show me proof that there was any trade between the West and North Korea between this time. An embargo doesn't have to be an announced and official one.
Even Russia sanctioned North Korea starting in 2013 for their behavior.
And?
Really i don't even understand how this matters in the first place, i wouldn't have thought the claim that North Korea has been sanctioned would be so controversial. Pretty sure its common knowledge. Isn't it called the "hermit kingdom" or some such too?
Nah mate, you said the West followed the US in everything it did, back it up.
I believe that you have it backwards. North Korea, backed by China and with the approval and arming by the USSR, invaded South Korea. South Korea remains independent today because it was defended by the UN. The North's allies promised to rebuild the North after the war and poured billions of roubles into the country. They remained dependent on the eastern bloc countries until the USSR fell and China opened up to the West. The North's economy fell apart in the 1990's after they were no longer propped up by others. The US provided $600 million in aid for food and energy starting in 1995. Sanctions against North Korea did not start until 2006.
Fun fact, Russia a permanent member of the UN security council could a vetoed the UN resolution allowing UN intervention in The Korean civil war. But they were boycotting the UN at the time for some reason
North Korea invaded South Korea as much as revolutionary Americans "invaded" loyalist Americans.
North Korea indeed did have some troubles in the 1990s, which is to be expected when one is cut off from all support, yet they pulled through well and are now self-sufficient. One can't say the same about South Korea with its worsening living conditions and plummeting birth rates, and this is with Western support.
From Wikipedia:
After failed attempts of negotiations on unification, North Korean army (Korean People's Army or KPA) forces crossed the border and drove into South Korea on 25 June 1950.
Sounds way more like Russia invading Ukraine.
Was the American revolution an "invasion" against the english? Or the French revolution an "invasion" against the monarchists?
Cant you just go to Lemmygrad or Hexbear and cry there?
🥱
Imagine having a discussion with some that disagrees with you.
Look at Cuba, to see how much the US doesn't play fair with communist nations.
North Korea's biggest sin is surviving a genocidial war against them by the US, the West simply cannot forgive such transgressions.
Jesus Robert Christ, what other amazing historical tidbits do you have rattling around up there? This is fascinating as hell!
I suppose you support killing millions of Koreans and bombing 70% of Pyongyang? Afterwards sanctioning the country to hell?
We just have to look at how the populations are faring between the two systems. Which population is enjoying a better quality of life? The Koreas are an experiment of the capitalist society versus the central economy. So we can take this data how we like. As far as sanctions go Korea has a land border with both Russia and China, so that should not have been a major factor in the centrally planned economy.
Yes please lets do that. Which system has twice the higher birth rates? Which system has more than twice larger military? Which system is self-sufficient? Which system has preserved their national culture and hasn't degenerated into little USA? Which system survived a genocidial war and being sanctioned by almost the entire world?
The two Koreas are a perfect example indeed, the South is for the degenerate liberals who only care about their access to fast food and porn, while the North is for patriots that wish to preserve their unique culture and way of life.
Great. I agree. Let's open the border between the Koreas and let people self-select.
I agree, just end the military occupation by the US first.
South Korea's perfectly able to disinvite the United States it whenever it wants.
Let's not move the goal post. The theory we're testing is that North Korea is superior to South Korea for the civilians. So we don't need to change anything to test this theory. Just open the border. And let anybody move with no restrictions. That'll help us see which is better for the people.
Lmao, sure
Its not moving any goal posts, remove the hostile precense first. Btw, why do you think South Korea needs to bribe any possible defectors with almost a million dollars? Surely just escaping the horrible North would be enough incentive? Why are there so few North Korean defectors, and even some of them complain how the North was better?
You're making it seem like the country is split only due to the North. As if it is their decision.
I don't see what's wrong with just letting everybody move how they want. Don't pay them at all. See where they move. Why can't we do that experiment?
Ok, we cant do such an experiment though, as neither country allows moving to either one. Tell me, why doesn't South Korea allow their citizens to even enter North Korea? Surely the freedom and liberty loving South Korea should allow this freedom to their citizens, are they not confident in their absolute superiority?
I'm not a politician of that country. But if I had to guess
Reciprocity
Usually open borders between countries requires a bilateral agreement between the countries to allow that movement. So opening the border for people to get stuck in the other country isn't great. And countries typically don't let that happen.
South Koreans certainly can fly to China and then take the land border into North Korea. Nothing stopping that
Excuses, if South Korea was so damn certain of their superiority, they'd allow unrestricted immigration into the North, afterall, isn't this the reverse of what you're saying?
Apparently the sanctions that started in 2006 erased 53 years of progress.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_against_North_Korea
Why are you lying?
You said sanctioned by the West, not the US. The West didn't start sanctions until 2006. The US wasn't a primary trading partner of any eastern bloc county during the cold war so it wouldn't have made a difference.
The US is the de facto leader of the West, if it embargoes a country, it is embargoed by the West as well.
Show me the proof that members of the West other than the US sanctioned North Korea between 1991 and 2006.
Even Russia sanctioned North Korea starting in 2013 for their behavior.
Ah i see the goal posts have moved. Why don't you show me proof that there was any trade between the West and North Korea between this time. An embargo doesn't have to be an announced and official one.
And?
Really i don't even understand how this matters in the first place, i wouldn't have thought the claim that North Korea has been sanctioned would be so controversial. Pretty sure its common knowledge. Isn't it called the "hermit kingdom" or some such too?
Nah mate, you said the West followed the US in everything it did, back it up.
I believe that you have it backwards. North Korea, backed by China and with the approval and arming by the USSR, invaded South Korea. South Korea remains independent today because it was defended by the UN. The North's allies promised to rebuild the North after the war and poured billions of roubles into the country. They remained dependent on the eastern bloc countries until the USSR fell and China opened up to the West. The North's economy fell apart in the 1990's after they were no longer propped up by others. The US provided $600 million in aid for food and energy starting in 1995. Sanctions against North Korea did not start until 2006.
Fun fact, Russia a permanent member of the UN security council could a vetoed the UN resolution allowing UN intervention in The Korean civil war. But they were boycotting the UN at the time for some reason
North Korea invaded South Korea as much as revolutionary Americans "invaded" loyalist Americans.
North Korea indeed did have some troubles in the 1990s, which is to be expected when one is cut off from all support, yet they pulled through well and are now self-sufficient. One can't say the same about South Korea with its worsening living conditions and plummeting birth rates, and this is with Western support.
From Wikipedia:
Sounds way more like Russia invading Ukraine.
Was the American revolution an "invasion" against the english? Or the French revolution an "invasion" against the monarchists?
Cant you just go to Lemmygrad or Hexbear and cry there?
🥱
Imagine having a discussion with some that disagrees with you.
Look at Cuba, to see how much the US doesn't play fair with communist nations.