Loves me a good gun pedantry thread. As if the kids aren't just as dead from "not an assault rifle."
Threads like this are why we'll always have this problem. God bless America.
As if the kids aren't just as dead from "not an assault rifle."
Totally agree. I think the focus on a particular type of firearm is a distraction.
Because many of the things people cite as a reason to ban "assault weapons" are shared by many other firearms.
Many other rifle rounds are at least as powerful as the 5.56 NATO (in terms of delivered energy). Plenty of firearms can be loaded with 30 round magazines (even Glock pistols). And it's moot anyway because magazine changes are quick and easy. Pistol grips exist on some firearms (and all, you know, pistols) not that a rifle grip isn't entirely functional also. Nearly all modern firearms designs are semi-automatic. One shot per trigger pull, no action needed to chamber a round (versus lever action, bolt action, pump action, etc). Automatic weapons have been tightly controlled since the 1968 federal firearms act.
So let's all be honest with ourselves whatever side of this discussion we are on. It isn't really about the AR-15 or "assault rifles". If you want to ban or further restrict access to that style of weapon because of its capabilities in the hands of a nutjob, and you want to make an effective policy, you are really going to need to ban or restrict access to all firearms. Some already know this. The ones arguing against a particular type, I think, don't.
And since there are so many firearms already owned by Americans, the only way for the policy to be truly effective is getting guns out of people's hands, nationwide, via a combination of buy-back or confiscation.
There are still arguments for or against. Whatever. But let's not argue as if assault rifles are magic. They're more or less as deadly as any firearm.
It does make sense to use the correct terminology in a debate imo
If the debate is about kids dying the arguments should be about how to stop that. Not the exact make and model of gun that killed them.
Arguing stupid details like that just makes it seem like you don’t care people are dying.
I thought the argument was about what sort of guns to ban
Then you haven’t been paying attention.
But that's the main point of the debate, the legality of owning certain firearms
Maybe for people who don’t care that people are getting killed
I thought people wanted certain guns banned for the specific purpose of avoiding mass shootings
Clearly, the freedom to own and shoot a gun overrides the freedom to live and breathe. And that's before we start tracking all the gun-related injuries that don't end in death.
To some apparently. Meanwhile do we have a right to defend ourselves and our loved ones?
Americans pretending to be savety nerds when it's about guns.
Sure. Are you under the impression that a gun is going to do that? Because if so, you're gravely mistaken.
What are you trying to point out with your link? All I'm seeing is more guns = more homicide, but it seems like your point was that guns are not effective self defense tools and I'm not seeing the connection.
Objectives. We investigated the possible relationship between being shot in an assault and possession of a gun at the time.
Methods. We enrolled 677 case participants that had been shot in an assault and 684 population-based control participants within Philadelphia, PA, from 2003 to 2006. We adjusted odds ratios for confounding variables.
Results. After adjustment, individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P < .05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession. Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist, this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45 (P < .05).
Conclusions. On average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. Although successful defensive gun uses occur each year, the probability of success may be low for civilian gun users in urban areas. Such users should reconsider their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures.
Is that clear enough for you? Possessing a gun for self defense increases the chances that you or your loved ones will be hurt in the act of defending yourself. The mere presence of a gun creates an escalation of violence during confrontations, regardless of whether or not the justification is "self defense."
That's an interesting study. I didn't reply to the earlier post as I wanted to get a chance to review and think on it more. Appreciate the added clarity here.
It's clear that you'll move the goal posts and pull out something new when someone points out your flawed argument. Stop trying to do your side favors and the debate might have a snowball's chance.
I'm sorry. Does offering clear, reliable sources to prove my point offend you? That sounds positively horrible for you. How about a hug?
clear, reliable sources to prove my point
Did you forget the part where you supplied a link to sources that didn't relate to the point you were making?
The part where I pointed out that the guns don't make people safer? Two links (I can find more!) in support of that conclusion? I'm confused as to your motives in accusing me of being dishonest unless your goal is to try to pretend that I haven't actually proven the point that I've been making all along.
Either way, I can see that further discussion is pointless. Feel free to have the last word.
Loves me a good gun pedantry thread. As if the kids aren't just as dead from "not an assault rifle."
Threads like this are why we'll always have this problem. God bless America.
Totally agree. I think the focus on a particular type of firearm is a distraction.
Because many of the things people cite as a reason to ban "assault weapons" are shared by many other firearms.
Many other rifle rounds are at least as powerful as the 5.56 NATO (in terms of delivered energy). Plenty of firearms can be loaded with 30 round magazines (even Glock pistols). And it's moot anyway because magazine changes are quick and easy. Pistol grips exist on some firearms (and all, you know, pistols) not that a rifle grip isn't entirely functional also. Nearly all modern firearms designs are semi-automatic. One shot per trigger pull, no action needed to chamber a round (versus lever action, bolt action, pump action, etc). Automatic weapons have been tightly controlled since the 1968 federal firearms act.
So let's all be honest with ourselves whatever side of this discussion we are on. It isn't really about the AR-15 or "assault rifles". If you want to ban or further restrict access to that style of weapon because of its capabilities in the hands of a nutjob, and you want to make an effective policy, you are really going to need to ban or restrict access to all firearms. Some already know this. The ones arguing against a particular type, I think, don't.
And since there are so many firearms already owned by Americans, the only way for the policy to be truly effective is getting guns out of people's hands, nationwide, via a combination of buy-back or confiscation.
There are still arguments for or against. Whatever. But let's not argue as if assault rifles are magic. They're more or less as deadly as any firearm.
It does make sense to use the correct terminology in a debate imo
If the debate is about kids dying the arguments should be about how to stop that. Not the exact make and model of gun that killed them.
Arguing stupid details like that just makes it seem like you don’t care people are dying.
I thought the argument was about what sort of guns to ban
Then you haven’t been paying attention.
But that's the main point of the debate, the legality of owning certain firearms
Maybe for people who don’t care that people are getting killed
I thought people wanted certain guns banned for the specific purpose of avoiding mass shootings
Clearly, the freedom to own and shoot a gun overrides the freedom to live and breathe. And that's before we start tracking all the gun-related injuries that don't end in death.
To some apparently. Meanwhile do we have a right to defend ourselves and our loved ones?
Americans pretending to be savety nerds when it's about guns.
Sure. Are you under the impression that a gun is going to do that? Because if so, you're gravely mistaken.
What are you trying to point out with your link? All I'm seeing is more guns = more homicide, but it seems like your point was that guns are not effective self defense tools and I'm not seeing the connection.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/
Is that clear enough for you? Possessing a gun for self defense increases the chances that you or your loved ones will be hurt in the act of defending yourself. The mere presence of a gun creates an escalation of violence during confrontations, regardless of whether or not the justification is "self defense."
That's an interesting study. I didn't reply to the earlier post as I wanted to get a chance to review and think on it more. Appreciate the added clarity here.
It's clear that you'll move the goal posts and pull out something new when someone points out your flawed argument. Stop trying to do your side favors and the debate might have a snowball's chance.
I'm sorry. Does offering clear, reliable sources to prove my point offend you? That sounds positively horrible for you. How about a hug?
Did you forget the part where you supplied a link to sources that didn't relate to the point you were making?
The part where I pointed out that the guns don't make people safer? Two links (I can find more!) in support of that conclusion? I'm confused as to your motives in accusing me of being dishonest unless your goal is to try to pretend that I haven't actually proven the point that I've been making all along.
Either way, I can see that further discussion is pointless. Feel free to have the last word.