Wouldn't it be nice to not have an adversarial, abusive relationship with your OS?
The whole point of computers, as far as I can tell, is to be that abusive relationship we never could perfect with humans. Linux is no exception, it's just more passive-aggressive and better with gaslighting.
"You see, if only you'd installed this dependency, which I showed you so clearly in the error logs all along - and I categorised them so nicely - but you never like to look there, do you? - I mean, I understand, and that's why I mentioned it - not too strongly, because I didn't want to upset you more - in the terminal output..."
Most Linux developers don't include anti-features on purpose, but Windows developers do.
I think dependencies have gotten simpler on Linux with flatpak. The fact that the command-line is still sometimes needed on Linux is just a fact of life. Nobody is forcing users to use it out of any sort of passive-aggressive distain for users, but just that it takes less time out of volunteer developers' schedules to buold command-line tools.
I think one thing to note in the CLI-GUI debate though is that Windows pushed hard against CLI interfaces from day 1. Even starting with Windows 3, there were a lot of things you couldn't do with CLI easily, while Unix has always had full CLI support. Users being unfamiliar with CLI interfaces is a symptom of Windows dominance.
Or Windows dominance is a symptom of the average computer user struggling with a cli
I mean it's so logical, I have real troubles figuring out why so many people don't get it.
You can't immediately see what options you have in a command line.
In a UI, you see the "menu" button right there.
If you have no idea about anything, in a UI, you can still click on the menu button, and are presented with more options.
In a command line, if you have absolutely no clue, what do you need to do? Honestly, you have to ask someone who knows (be it a friend, a manual, or web search). You can randomly start typing or press keys, but the chance to get to something useful is very low.
Why do people always assume GNU+Linux relies on a command line these days!? That's like saying Windows does... I.e. it's not true. Maybe if you go back to the Win9x and DOS days.
I swear, if you're going to complain about possibly the only OS that fully respects users and their freedom, how about you actually use it first and understand it's GUI mechanisms before spouting nonsense.
Windows is dominant because of extreme anti-competitive and other nasty practices in the past. The reason it's still dominant is because it has locked itself into it's dominant position since people are used to it (they still do many nasty practices today, as well)
That's like saying Windows does... I.e. it's not true. Maybe if you go back to the Win9x and DOS days.
I don't think you've seen the number of power user articles these days that give you two options :
Wade through 27 levels of keys and subkeys in regedit, create this dword, then stop and start this inscrutably-named service, or
Run this one line command in PowerShell.
Lmao I forgot about the registry. I was never a Windows power user.
It's was definitely one of those "seemed like a good idea at the time" kinda things, but now they've realised they've created a monster.
I use command line by choice on Linux, but find myself forced to use PowerShell to make a windows installation that is somewhat bearable.
any sort of passive-aggressive distain for users,
Yeah, I don't mean from the devs - though part of the community can be a bit like that sometimes. But the computer itself...
I may have been anthropomorphizing, with a touch of experience-induced poetic imagination.
Package managers have become so much better with dependencies. It's been a while since I've encountered an issue, with yay it very usually works out of the box.
Agreed. Though I do have recent experiences of dependency troubles. I really should get better at reporting them to the proper channels, but by the time I've worked out how to fix, I usually don't have the energy left... 😕
My stint with Ubuntu... 16? Did not end well.
You realize that 16 means 2016, right? That's almost 8 years ago. And even as someone who uses Linux I don't like Ubuntu. I highly recommend trying Mint, Fedora, or EndeavourOS (Arch)
There's a difference between feeling abused from intentional mistreatment and then there's frustration from miscommunication or inadequacy from either partner.
The whole point of computers, as far as I can tell, is to be that abusive relationship we never could perfect with humans. Linux is no exception, it's just more passive-aggressive and better with gaslighting.
"You see, if only you'd installed this dependency, which I showed you so clearly in the error logs all along - and I categorised them so nicely - but you never like to look there, do you? - I mean, I understand, and that's why I mentioned it - not too strongly, because I didn't want to upset you more - in the terminal output..."
Most Linux developers don't include anti-features on purpose, but Windows developers do.
I think dependencies have gotten simpler on Linux with flatpak. The fact that the command-line is still sometimes needed on Linux is just a fact of life. Nobody is forcing users to use it out of any sort of passive-aggressive distain for users, but just that it takes less time out of volunteer developers' schedules to buold command-line tools.
I think one thing to note in the CLI-GUI debate though is that Windows pushed hard against CLI interfaces from day 1. Even starting with Windows 3, there were a lot of things you couldn't do with CLI easily, while Unix has always had full CLI support. Users being unfamiliar with CLI interfaces is a symptom of Windows dominance.
Or Windows dominance is a symptom of the average computer user struggling with a cli
I mean it's so logical, I have real troubles figuring out why so many people don't get it.
You can't immediately see what options you have in a command line.
In a UI, you see the "menu" button right there.
If you have no idea about anything, in a UI, you can still click on the menu button, and are presented with more options.
In a command line, if you have absolutely no clue, what do you need to do? Honestly, you have to ask someone who knows (be it a friend, a manual, or web search). You can randomly start typing or press keys, but the chance to get to something useful is very low.
Why do people always assume GNU+Linux relies on a command line these days!? That's like saying Windows does... I.e. it's not true. Maybe if you go back to the Win9x and DOS days.
I swear, if you're going to complain about possibly the only OS that fully respects users and their freedom, how about you actually use it first and understand it's GUI mechanisms before spouting nonsense.
Windows is dominant because of extreme anti-competitive and other nasty practices in the past. The reason it's still dominant is because it has locked itself into it's dominant position since people are used to it (they still do many nasty practices today, as well)
I don't think you've seen the number of power user articles these days that give you two options :
Lmao I forgot about the registry. I was never a Windows power user.
It's was definitely one of those "seemed like a good idea at the time" kinda things, but now they've realised they've created a monster.
I use command line by choice on Linux, but find myself forced to use PowerShell to make a windows installation that is somewhat bearable.
Yeah, I don't mean from the devs - though part of the community can be a bit like that sometimes. But the computer itself...
I may have been anthropomorphizing, with a touch of experience-induced poetic imagination.
Package managers have become so much better with dependencies. It's been a while since I've encountered an issue, with yay it very usually works out of the box.
Agreed. Though I do have recent experiences of dependency troubles. I really should get better at reporting them to the proper channels, but by the time I've worked out how to fix, I usually don't have the energy left... 😕
My stint with Ubuntu... 16? Did not end well.
You realize that 16 means 2016, right? That's almost 8 years ago. And even as someone who uses Linux I don't like Ubuntu. I highly recommend trying Mint, Fedora, or EndeavourOS (Arch)
There's a difference between feeling abused from intentional mistreatment and then there's frustration from miscommunication or inadequacy from either partner.