I partially agree with you, in that if that money could be used to help other countries that would at least be providing value to the world. Unfortunately I don't believe it's being used that way in this case. Money going to Israel is being used to massacre Palestinian civilians en masse (culminating in what is very likely, and I consider, a genocide), and money going to Ukraine is going to prolong a conflict that the USA has been explicitly preventing from reaching any potential diplomatic resolution. Yes, it would be ideal if Russia pulled out of Ukraine and left them alone but Russia won't do that when it holds the best cards and the best chance for that was earlier in the war when Ukraine had lots of military funding that wasn't being diverted to the Gaza Genocide and most of its troops and fighting-age population weren't crippled or dead.
I don’t see how the US could possibly be the one precenting a diplomatic solution in Ukraine? Russia continues to presue maximum war aims, including having officially amexed whole regions into the the Russian Federation that has not at any point in the conflict been held by Russia, and maintaining that any peace not only mandates that Ukraine can not at any point in the future join any defensive alliance or pact but also that Ukraine stops holding elections in favor of its leaders being appointed solely by Moscow.
The territory thing is important because the Ukrainian constitution specifically requires that any change in the nations borders be approved by a public referendum in which all citizens can vote. Given that current polling shows about 2 to 4 percent support for such a referendum, such a deal is unlikely to be approved anytime soon.
Militarily, it is important to note that the Russian government is not and has never been the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union’s was an alliance of dozens of nations where the majority of its military production were in nations like Ukraine, Germany, and Poland. Russia has large reserves of Soviet equipment in fields that it has been rebuilding, but a limited ability to produce fully new equipment. Hence why for instance they are buying up large portions of the North Korean ammunition stockpiles to make up for a lack of domestic supply.
On the other hand, Ukraine’s production is in the other hundred and ninty some odd nations that make up the gobal economy. Supporting it has made up a relatively small percentage of that economy, which is why in 2023 for instance the US provided over twice as many old tanks to Romania alone than it did to Ukraine. More importantly, the US can build thouse new tanks without starting by pulling a rusted shell out of a field first.
Given that at the current rate of Russian advancement it will take them decades to get back to where they were a few years ago, and over a century to fully concur all of Ukraine, the general strategy has been to let the dictator burn though his stockpiles and foreign exchange reserves while training the Ukrainians on stuff like tanks and air defense that entered production after the fall of Soviet Union.
The territory thing is important because the Ukrainian constitution specifically requires that any change in the nations borders be approved by a public referendum in which all citizens can vote. Given that current polling shows about 2 to 4 percent support for such a referendum, such a deal is unlikely to be approved anytime soon.
That number seems a bit unbelievably low to me.
If such a deal could be reached and Russia would get the Donbass and some other areas they already have now, why would 96-98% Ukrainians really not want that if it finally brings this terrible war to an end? After all those regions like the Donbass were already nothing but war-torn cesspools (think MH17!) where most of their remaining inhabitants actually prefer to be under the Russian regime for whatever reason. I don't think a normal Ukrainian that just wants to live without war will actually care whether they get these regions back. There's nothing left standing there anyway.
Personally if I were a Ukrainian from Kiev I would definitely not want to risk dying over some distant area full of rebel farmers. Just give them to Putin and see how they like being under his regime (I imagine, not very much). I would just want to live my life again and I wouldn't care about my country's borders being a little smaller. It's just some lines on a map. A matter of 'national pride' is not worth dying over. And life in Ukraine is basically at a standstill. People can't plan for the future, build a career, buy a home etc. That can't continue forever.
The question of course is whether Putin would actually stop forever or if it would just offer him a respite to build up his forces again for round 2. I would assume it would be most likely. But of course, so could Ukraine. Besides, Putin is getting old. We never thought that after Beria and Cruchev someone like Gorbachev would come but he did. Someone else could stand up after Putin and peace might well last.
But anyway, if they want this to continue, so be it. I just think it's unlikely Russia will ever be completely beaten back even if NATO did get involved (and it won't because it would lead to terrible escalation) and who wants another 10 years of war? Yes, Russia was wrong for attacking Ukraine and has committed terrible war crimes but at this point I think a compromise should be reached to stop further loss of life. Ukraine has fought very well to push them back but whatever little Russia has now is not important enough to die over IMO. Lately the victories have been very hard-fought with very nasty losses. Even if the war ended with the current status quo, Ukraine should be really proud of what they have achieved. They would have beaten back the lion.
PS: This might sound harsh sure but I really don't see what they have to gain by fighting to the bitter end to get that Donbass back.
How is this perspective different during an invasion of a hostile, genocidal force than simply copping to cowardice and collaboration?
Frankly do not agree with your assessment especially about Ukraine. Russia still retains maximal aims. Ukraine still retains the ability to militarily defeat Russia but the west has been a day late and a dollar short. Manpower. That is a Ukranian political decision. Ukrainian losses have been not that large compared to their population. Similar in ratio to Russian losses to their population.
Gaza is harder. No good solution. The residents of Gaza choose this by choosing Hamas as their government and starting a war with Israel. Iran is similarly responsible.
Edit: The amount of money the US has put into either conflicts is minimal, had been spend largely in the US, and has no relation to social funding.
I think you need to research the history of Palestine before you shit nonsense out of your mouth.
...shit nonsense out of your mouth.
Your words aren't nice. Please, remember to be(e) nice when using Beehaw. Thanks.
Ukraine still retains the ability to militarily defeat Russia but the west has been a day late and a dollar short.
I think that may have been the case at one point, but if you look up Ukraine and prosthetics, and compare to the population and military strength you'll see that it's more than a day late at this point. Even if you're of the opinion that deaths aren't that high, prostheses need paints a grim picture for the future of that conflict. Countries like France were trying to negotiate settlements and ceasefires earlier in the war but the US kept blocking them and hinging financial and military support on not negotiating, which is how we got where we are there.
The residents of Gaza choose this by choosing Hamas as their government and starting a war with Israel. Iran is similarly responsible.
First, I disagree. Hamas was elected decades ago and there have been no elections since, and more than 50% of Gaza was children before Oct 7th. The majority of people who live in Gaza did not elect Hamas.
Secondly, even if this was the case, what were Gazans going to do about their situation, protest? Israel controls and controlled flow of trade (via a blockade), water, and electricity into Gaza before this conflict. A huge percentage of the Gaza population had injuries from IDF soldiers deliberately shooting them in the kneecaps from earlier protests or getting too close to the fences they erected. On top of that, Israel helped fund Hamas and got them into power, so Oct 7 was just Israel reaping what it sowed. Gaza was an open air prison hosting a slow genocide before this conflict, all that's happened now is Israel moving up the timetable.
All that money is used to buy American weapons and products. That's how it works. That money is paid back to American companies.
Well the CEOs of Raytheon, Haliburton, and Lockheed-Martin are doing fine, fwiw. I think though that the issue is rather than funnel money to those dudes, people would like to keep their money to spend it on things they need, like food or bills.
I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that the money would be spent on food aid. After the fall of the Soviet Union for instance, congress explicitly passed a law preventing spending on defense from being redirected toward domestic issues. A large deficit also wasn’t seen as much of an issue when we halved the corporate tax rate in 2017.
Well because if they don't take my money for bomb building, I will spend it on food, to aid my living.
I wasn't saying the government would, they prefer to spend it on military, instead of letting me spend it on my food, that's actually kinda the whole thing.
Except we’ve already cut taxes to half to a third of what they were in the 60s, and most people made more than enough to spend on food then.
Yet people are spending 11% of their income on food due to rising prices and inflation and wages haven't really balanced out like in the 60s where my stepmom could pay for college with her summer job as a grocery bagger.
All I know is, if I had more money in my acct, it would get spent on food and bills.
But the extra dollar less in taxes won’t do anything about shrinking wages or raising housing costs and you’ll just be back to where you were when your employer pays you less because after all, taxes are so much lower now.
I partially agree with you, in that if that money could be used to help other countries that would at least be providing value to the world. Unfortunately I don't believe it's being used that way in this case. Money going to Israel is being used to massacre Palestinian civilians en masse (culminating in what is very likely, and I consider, a genocide), and money going to Ukraine is going to prolong a conflict that the USA has been explicitly preventing from reaching any potential diplomatic resolution. Yes, it would be ideal if Russia pulled out of Ukraine and left them alone but Russia won't do that when it holds the best cards and the best chance for that was earlier in the war when Ukraine had lots of military funding that wasn't being diverted to the Gaza Genocide and most of its troops and fighting-age population weren't crippled or dead.
I don’t see how the US could possibly be the one precenting a diplomatic solution in Ukraine? Russia continues to presue maximum war aims, including having officially amexed whole regions into the the Russian Federation that has not at any point in the conflict been held by Russia, and maintaining that any peace not only mandates that Ukraine can not at any point in the future join any defensive alliance or pact but also that Ukraine stops holding elections in favor of its leaders being appointed solely by Moscow.
The territory thing is important because the Ukrainian constitution specifically requires that any change in the nations borders be approved by a public referendum in which all citizens can vote. Given that current polling shows about 2 to 4 percent support for such a referendum, such a deal is unlikely to be approved anytime soon.
Militarily, it is important to note that the Russian government is not and has never been the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union’s was an alliance of dozens of nations where the majority of its military production were in nations like Ukraine, Germany, and Poland. Russia has large reserves of Soviet equipment in fields that it has been rebuilding, but a limited ability to produce fully new equipment. Hence why for instance they are buying up large portions of the North Korean ammunition stockpiles to make up for a lack of domestic supply.
On the other hand, Ukraine’s production is in the other hundred and ninty some odd nations that make up the gobal economy. Supporting it has made up a relatively small percentage of that economy, which is why in 2023 for instance the US provided over twice as many old tanks to Romania alone than it did to Ukraine. More importantly, the US can build thouse new tanks without starting by pulling a rusted shell out of a field first.
Given that at the current rate of Russian advancement it will take them decades to get back to where they were a few years ago, and over a century to fully concur all of Ukraine, the general strategy has been to let the dictator burn though his stockpiles and foreign exchange reserves while training the Ukrainians on stuff like tanks and air defense that entered production after the fall of Soviet Union.
That number seems a bit unbelievably low to me.
If such a deal could be reached and Russia would get the Donbass and some other areas they already have now, why would 96-98% Ukrainians really not want that if it finally brings this terrible war to an end? After all those regions like the Donbass were already nothing but war-torn cesspools (think MH17!) where most of their remaining inhabitants actually prefer to be under the Russian regime for whatever reason. I don't think a normal Ukrainian that just wants to live without war will actually care whether they get these regions back. There's nothing left standing there anyway.
Personally if I were a Ukrainian from Kiev I would definitely not want to risk dying over some distant area full of rebel farmers. Just give them to Putin and see how they like being under his regime (I imagine, not very much). I would just want to live my life again and I wouldn't care about my country's borders being a little smaller. It's just some lines on a map. A matter of 'national pride' is not worth dying over. And life in Ukraine is basically at a standstill. People can't plan for the future, build a career, buy a home etc. That can't continue forever.
The question of course is whether Putin would actually stop forever or if it would just offer him a respite to build up his forces again for round 2. I would assume it would be most likely. But of course, so could Ukraine. Besides, Putin is getting old. We never thought that after Beria and Cruchev someone like Gorbachev would come but he did. Someone else could stand up after Putin and peace might well last.
But anyway, if they want this to continue, so be it. I just think it's unlikely Russia will ever be completely beaten back even if NATO did get involved (and it won't because it would lead to terrible escalation) and who wants another 10 years of war? Yes, Russia was wrong for attacking Ukraine and has committed terrible war crimes but at this point I think a compromise should be reached to stop further loss of life. Ukraine has fought very well to push them back but whatever little Russia has now is not important enough to die over IMO. Lately the victories have been very hard-fought with very nasty losses. Even if the war ended with the current status quo, Ukraine should be really proud of what they have achieved. They would have beaten back the lion.
PS: This might sound harsh sure but I really don't see what they have to gain by fighting to the bitter end to get that Donbass back.
How is this perspective different during an invasion of a hostile, genocidal force than simply copping to cowardice and collaboration?
Frankly do not agree with your assessment especially about Ukraine. Russia still retains maximal aims. Ukraine still retains the ability to militarily defeat Russia but the west has been a day late and a dollar short. Manpower. That is a Ukranian political decision. Ukrainian losses have been not that large compared to their population. Similar in ratio to Russian losses to their population.
Gaza is harder. No good solution. The residents of Gaza choose this by choosing Hamas as their government and starting a war with Israel. Iran is similarly responsible.
Edit: The amount of money the US has put into either conflicts is minimal, had been spend largely in the US, and has no relation to social funding.
I think you need to research the history of Palestine before you shit nonsense out of your mouth.
Your words aren't nice. Please, remember to be(e) nice when using Beehaw. Thanks.
I think that may have been the case at one point, but if you look up Ukraine and prosthetics, and compare to the population and military strength you'll see that it's more than a day late at this point. Even if you're of the opinion that deaths aren't that high, prostheses need paints a grim picture for the future of that conflict. Countries like France were trying to negotiate settlements and ceasefires earlier in the war but the US kept blocking them and hinging financial and military support on not negotiating, which is how we got where we are there.
First, I disagree. Hamas was elected decades ago and there have been no elections since, and more than 50% of Gaza was children before Oct 7th. The majority of people who live in Gaza did not elect Hamas.
Secondly, even if this was the case, what were Gazans going to do about their situation, protest? Israel controls and controlled flow of trade (via a blockade), water, and electricity into Gaza before this conflict. A huge percentage of the Gaza population had injuries from IDF soldiers deliberately shooting them in the kneecaps from earlier protests or getting too close to the fences they erected. On top of that, Israel helped fund Hamas and got them into power, so Oct 7 was just Israel reaping what it sowed. Gaza was an open air prison hosting a slow genocide before this conflict, all that's happened now is Israel moving up the timetable.
All that money is used to buy American weapons and products. That's how it works. That money is paid back to American companies.
Well the CEOs of Raytheon, Haliburton, and Lockheed-Martin are doing fine, fwiw. I think though that the issue is rather than funnel money to those dudes, people would like to keep their money to spend it on things they need, like food or bills.
I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that the money would be spent on food aid. After the fall of the Soviet Union for instance, congress explicitly passed a law preventing spending on defense from being redirected toward domestic issues. A large deficit also wasn’t seen as much of an issue when we halved the corporate tax rate in 2017.
Well because if they don't take my money for bomb building, I will spend it on food, to aid my living.
I wasn't saying the government would, they prefer to spend it on military, instead of letting me spend it on my food, that's actually kinda the whole thing.
Except we’ve already cut taxes to half to a third of what they were in the 60s, and most people made more than enough to spend on food then.
Yet people are spending 11% of their income on food due to rising prices and inflation and wages haven't really balanced out like in the 60s where my stepmom could pay for college with her summer job as a grocery bagger.
All I know is, if I had more money in my acct, it would get spent on food and bills.
But the extra dollar less in taxes won’t do anything about shrinking wages or raising housing costs and you’ll just be back to where you were when your employer pays you less because after all, taxes are so much lower now.