I'm so sorry to hear that. Satan does infiltrate places where God is meant to be. What I am sharing is more than a religion. It's a relationship with and eternal security in Christ. I stress this enough, the things that happened to you when you were younger WERE NOT okay in any way, shape or form. Bad things happen in schools as well, and other places that are supposed to be a sanctuary. Please don't allow your bad experience to reflect poorly on Christ. I think it was Gandhi who said "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
God is not all powerful if Satan can overcome him.
Satan cannot overcome Him. Satan's time is limited, in the end he will be defeated.
God was incapable of defeating him when a child was being raped and a perfect being is not capable of change.
The next child being raped will be watched by your God, too, as he will never be capable of defeating evil, as a perfect being will never change.
To change God would be to admit imperfection. Which is why I love the irony of the New Testament.
So if God is not capable of overcoming evil, and we know he is willing to watch innocent children be raped, why worship him?
All of these things are insignificant compared to Heaven. I think Job 38 illustrates God's perspective on this perfectly. This life is all we know right now.
Revelation shows God defeating Satan. It will happen. Satan's power is limited right now. Right now we have Jesus to save us in the meantime.
raped children don't matter compared to my mental comfort
The disgusting selfish ego of the religious is the part I can never empathize with or sympathize with.
So, you admit God must change in the future to defeat Satan? You do not believe he is capable of defeating him as he is?
So God is neither all powerful nor perfect.
You do not worship the main texts of Christianity with those claims.
Notice how you don't actually want to discuss the topics or respond to the things I've said. You want to inject some fluffy talk to reinforce hiding your eyes from the discussion to pretend like you are participating.
If I worshipped something as a God, I would be devout enough to discuss it with a person instead of just talking over their statements about it.
Let's revisit where my previous comment started
God was incapable of defeating him when a child was being raped and a perfect being is not capable of change.
The next child being raped will be watched by your God, too, as he will never be capable of defeating evil, as a perfect being will never change.
You are happy to worship an imperfect powerless God who let's children be raped because a book written by child rapists said things might get better one day.
This guy believes in literal satan and jesus. Don't even try logic and reason, he is to far gone.
Yes... Because I'm Christian. It seems you feel that you are "too far gone" if you're Christian š
Satan actually isn't really a Christian concept.
Do you celebrate Christmas?
Of course I celebrate Christmas. Do you think I'm a Jehovah's Witness or something? š¤£
Well, I don't think you are a practicing Christian lmao.
Are you a Jehovah's Witness?
You understand my position almost as well as you understand your own lmao
Nope, not every christian is a hardcore christian fundamentalist.
Believing in Jesus and Satan are the fundamentals of Christianity so... Yes?
I'm not arguing with you about logic, what would be the point? From my perspective it's like arguing with someone who thinks Lord of the Rings is based on real true story, which would be rather ridiculous endeavor.
How is that relevant?
From my perspective you are not different than your average schizophrenic, who has troubles to tell real and imaginary world apart. So as I would not argue with a schizophrenic (I would just enjoy the madness) - I see no point in arguing with you. You need some Dawkins kind of dude who is into this kind of kinky shit. I enjoy talking to people about their believes and spirituality, but I need to have at least some resemblance of agreement on nature of reality to argue with them.
Did you just edit my message? I never said that. I never said God needs to change, it's just something He will do as described in revelation. And what's this about the Bible being written by child rapists? It seems atheists cannot come to a consensus on who wrote it, but this is new. Then why doesn't it proscribe child rape and justify their actions, if it were?
You might not know your Bible as well as you think you do.
It's a relationship with and eternal security in Christ.
I'm honestly very curious where this concept actually comes from. Would you be kind enough to help me pinpoint which part of Christianity suggests this, specifically?
āRomans 3:10-12 ESVā¬
[10] as it is written: āNone is righteous, no, not one; [11] no one understands; no one seeks for God. [12] All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.ā
[23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
āJohn 3:16 ESVā¬
[16] āFor God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
ā1 Timothy 1:15 ESVā¬
[15] The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
āActs 16:31 ESVā¬
[31] And they said, āBelieve in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.ā
āRomans 8:1-2 ESVā¬
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
On relationship:
āMatthew 18:19-20 ESVā¬
[19] Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. [20] For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.ā
āRomans 8:26-27 ESVā¬
[26] Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. [27] And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
āRomans 8:34-35 ESVā¬
[34] Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who diedāmore than that, who was raisedāwho is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. [35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
Is it possible for you to explain without referencing the Bible?
My favourite thing about that video is that it uses deception and misrepresentation and lies (Come on, it even refers to Bart Ehrman as a "pious protestant"), exact tools satan would use š. It does capture satan's personality perfectly though, pretending to be the good guy.
Wait dude, I just realized - do you also believe in the literal Satan?
I'm a Christian.... So yes....
Woa, never met anyone who actually took Christianity that literal. That must be a wild experience to believe in literal devil and god, sin and all that stuff - that's a trip and a half. Kind of speechless - that's just wild.
Do suppose the only "Christian" you know is Schrƶdinger's Catholic š You mustn't get out much
I don't think that was a very charitable comment. I haven't anyone that believes in the Bible in a literal way either. I've heard people say the stories are mostly allegory and to practice the message of the Bible and the like.
That's insane. It's a shame how far we've fallen.
Maybe take it down a notch when it comes to calling people insane because your lack of self awareness is kind of embarrassing. We aren't the ones going off about an ancient book of supernatural morality tales. Tales that you haven't learned to practice what they're preaching apparently.
You know, when you start to think that everyone else around you is insane - maybe it's a good moment to stop for a moment and reflect.
Sure, what ever helps you sleep at night my crazy friend.
Did you even read the original comment?
Would you be kind enough to help me pinpoint which part of Christianity suggests this, specifically?
What else could I use?
I don't know, I guess I was curious because this seems so important to you and I wasn't expecting you to hinge your whole belief system on one ancient book.
I wasn't raised around religion nor have I ever really been around it, so I find it fascinating. My, bad, I guess it was a big ask.
Yes? Because they are attestations of a guy who literally rose from the dead and fulfilled many verifiably older prophecies. We literally have surviving copies of prophecies about Jesus that were made before He was born. I'm sorry if I'm coming across as irate. Literally had someone tell me that it would be better if I and basically everyone I hold dear to me was dead. Along with 4 billion other people.
The Bible isn't one book. It's a library of 66 books spanning thousands of years.
Thanks for the reply.
Are you aware that you have used the Bible to explain your belief in the Bible?
As I understand your reply, you believe you have a relationship with Jesus because you believe he exists, and that relationship will continue forever after you die.
You believe this because it says so in the Bible.
I know this is difficult to admit to yourself, I've seen it in others, but this is circular reasoning.
It's difficult to admit because we as humans are able to compartmentalise two opposing things in our mind at the same time. You can have a belief based on circular reasoning, and at the same time you can know that circular reasoning is not a good way to come to a conclusion on which to base a belief.
It's your job as a Christian to make sure that your belief is true. By only looking at the Bible, you are failing in this endeavour.
"The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going." Proverbs 14:15
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." 1 Thessalonians 5:21
You asked for Christian doctrine... What else did you want me to use? You said "pinpoint where in Christianity".
And Christianity is what you believe in. If you're telling me that the source of your beliefs is the reason for your beliefs, well, that's not a good way to know things.
I know this isn't easy, having your belief system exposed as untrustworthy. You can double down of course, which will make you feel better. Unfortunately it won't change reality.
You never asked me for my reason, you asked me for Christian doctrine, then acted like you asked for my reason in the first place.
No, I asked where in Christianity the idea comes from. You used doctrine to answer me, which is fine, but by doing so you revealed that your beliefs are derived from a book that tells you to have those beliefs.
I pointed this out to you because it's a problem, for you and for everyone else. We as humans should strive to make sure that the things we know are true, otherwise we get into all sorts of problems both as individuals and as a species.
What you are doing is basically accepting this -
but by doing so you revealed that your beliefs are derived from a book that tells you to have those beliefs.
You do realise that is not an argument at all? That's like saying
"how do you know how to build this ikea bookshelf"
"I read the instructions"
"But you cannot use the instructions to prove that you are in possession of the ikea bookshelf"
You didn't ask me why I believed in Christianity. You asked me to specify what parts of Christianity said that salvation is free and then got upset when I referenced letters from the Bible, which is THE collection of documents about Christianity.
I feel like you weren't actually wanting to reason with this, and were just looking for a way to get me to quote Scripture so you could accuse me of circular reasoning and use your napkin image.
I think you've missed the point, but that's ok.
That's like saying "how do you know how to build this ikea bookshelf" "I read the instructions" "But you cannot use the instructions to prove that you are in possession of the ikea bookshelf"
It really isn't, it's more like this -
"Why do you think you have an IKEA bookshelf, there really isn't any good reason to think so?"
"I have this instruction manual and it says I have one because it says so. That's good enough for me."
You can see how this looks from where I'm standing?
I asked in good faith, it's not in my nature to bait people. You're welcome to your opinion but it was your answer which caused me to go down that route. And please, no-one is upset here. If you really wanted to have a conversation, perhaps quoting scripture wasn't the best way to go about it.
You never asked me why I believed in Christianity. You asked me where in Christianity a specific doctrine was mentioned.
It's a relationship with and eternal security in Christ.
I'm honestly very curious where this concept actually comes from. Would you be kind enough to help me pinpoint which part of Christianity suggests this, specifically?
If you like. If I had wanted scripture quoted at me then I would have asked for that, but I asked about the concept. You could have explained the idea and referenced the quoted passages as you went along, but you choose not to and by doing so you didn't leave me with anything else to respond to.
This is a platform for communication and if you aren't here for that then it can only be assumed you have no desire to do anything other than to preach and proselytise.
I leave it to you whether that's something you wish to correct.
If you like. If I had wanted scripture quoted at me then I would have asked for that, but I asked about the concept.
You said "Where in Christianity".
This is a platform for communication and if you aren't here for that then it can only be assumed you have no desire to do anything other than to preach and proselytise.
So I cannot answer the question the guy asks if you don't like my answer? I was asked who I thought the greatest person to ever live was. And I gave my answer. How is that not communicating?
I'm so sorry to hear that. Satan does infiltrate places where God is meant to be. What I am sharing is more than a religion. It's a relationship with and eternal security in Christ. I stress this enough, the things that happened to you when you were younger WERE NOT okay in any way, shape or form. Bad things happen in schools as well, and other places that are supposed to be a sanctuary. Please don't allow your bad experience to reflect poorly on Christ. I think it was Gandhi who said "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
God is not all powerful if Satan can overcome him.
Satan cannot overcome Him. Satan's time is limited, in the end he will be defeated.
God was incapable of defeating him when a child was being raped and a perfect being is not capable of change.
The next child being raped will be watched by your God, too, as he will never be capable of defeating evil, as a perfect being will never change.
To change God would be to admit imperfection. Which is why I love the irony of the New Testament.
So if God is not capable of overcoming evil, and we know he is willing to watch innocent children be raped, why worship him?
All of these things are insignificant compared to Heaven. I think Job 38 illustrates God's perspective on this perfectly. This life is all we know right now.
Revelation shows God defeating Satan. It will happen. Satan's power is limited right now. Right now we have Jesus to save us in the meantime.
The disgusting selfish ego of the religious is the part I can never empathize with or sympathize with.
So, you admit God must change in the future to defeat Satan? You do not believe he is capable of defeating him as he is?
So God is neither all powerful nor perfect.
You do not worship the main texts of Christianity with those claims.
Notice how you don't actually want to discuss the topics or respond to the things I've said. You want to inject some fluffy talk to reinforce hiding your eyes from the discussion to pretend like you are participating.
If I worshipped something as a God, I would be devout enough to discuss it with a person instead of just talking over their statements about it.
Let's revisit where my previous comment started
You are happy to worship an imperfect powerless God who let's children be raped because a book written by child rapists said things might get better one day.
This guy believes in literal satan and jesus. Don't even try logic and reason, he is to far gone.
Yes... Because I'm Christian. It seems you feel that you are "too far gone" if you're Christian š
Satan actually isn't really a Christian concept.
Do you celebrate Christmas?
Of course I celebrate Christmas. Do you think I'm a Jehovah's Witness or something? š¤£
Well, I don't think you are a practicing Christian lmao.
Are you a Jehovah's Witness?
You understand my position almost as well as you understand your own lmao
Nope, not every christian is a hardcore christian fundamentalist.
Believing in Jesus and Satan are the fundamentals of Christianity so... Yes?
I'm not arguing with you about logic, what would be the point? From my perspective it's like arguing with someone who thinks Lord of the Rings is based on real true story, which would be rather ridiculous endeavor.
How is that relevant?
From my perspective you are not different than your average schizophrenic, who has troubles to tell real and imaginary world apart. So as I would not argue with a schizophrenic (I would just enjoy the madness) - I see no point in arguing with you. You need some Dawkins kind of dude who is into this kind of kinky shit. I enjoy talking to people about their believes and spirituality, but I need to have at least some resemblance of agreement on nature of reality to argue with them.
Did you just edit my message? I never said that. I never said God needs to change, it's just something He will do as described in revelation. And what's this about the Bible being written by child rapists? It seems atheists cannot come to a consensus on who wrote it, but this is new. Then why doesn't it proscribe child rape and justify their actions, if it were?
You might not know your Bible as well as you think you do.
Okay? š
š
I'll pass.
I'm honestly very curious where this concept actually comes from. Would you be kind enough to help me pinpoint which part of Christianity suggests this, specifically?
āRomans 3:10-12 ESVā¬ [10] as it is written: āNone is righteous, no, not one; [11] no one understands; no one seeks for God. [12] All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.ā [23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
āJohn 3:16 ESVā¬ [16] āFor God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
ā1 Timothy 1:15 ESVā¬ [15] The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
āActs 16:31 ESVā¬ [31] And they said, āBelieve in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.ā
āRomans 8:1-2 ESVā¬ [1] There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
On relationship:
āMatthew 18:19-20 ESVā¬ [19] Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. [20] For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.ā
āRomans 8:26-27 ESVā¬ [26] Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. [27] And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
āRomans 8:34-35 ESVā¬ [34] Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who diedāmore than that, who was raisedāwho is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. [35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
Is it possible for you to explain without referencing the Bible?
Nope
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Nope
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
My favourite thing about that video is that it uses deception and misrepresentation and lies (Come on, it even refers to Bart Ehrman as a "pious protestant"), exact tools satan would use š. It does capture satan's personality perfectly though, pretending to be the good guy.
Wait dude, I just realized - do you also believe in the literal Satan?
I'm a Christian.... So yes....
Woa, never met anyone who actually took Christianity that literal. That must be a wild experience to believe in literal devil and god, sin and all that stuff - that's a trip and a half. Kind of speechless - that's just wild.
Do suppose the only "Christian" you know is Schrƶdinger's Catholic š You mustn't get out much
I don't think that was a very charitable comment. I haven't anyone that believes in the Bible in a literal way either. I've heard people say the stories are mostly allegory and to practice the message of the Bible and the like.
That's insane. It's a shame how far we've fallen.
Maybe take it down a notch when it comes to calling people insane because your lack of self awareness is kind of embarrassing. We aren't the ones going off about an ancient book of supernatural morality tales. Tales that you haven't learned to practice what they're preaching apparently.
You know, when you start to think that everyone else around you is insane - maybe it's a good moment to stop for a moment and reflect.
Sure, what ever helps you sleep at night my crazy friend.
Did you even read the original comment?
What else could I use?
I don't know, I guess I was curious because this seems so important to you and I wasn't expecting you to hinge your whole belief system on one ancient book.
I wasn't raised around religion nor have I ever really been around it, so I find it fascinating. My, bad, I guess it was a big ask.
Yes? Because they are attestations of a guy who literally rose from the dead and fulfilled many verifiably older prophecies. We literally have surviving copies of prophecies about Jesus that were made before He was born. I'm sorry if I'm coming across as irate. Literally had someone tell me that it would be better if I and basically everyone I hold dear to me was dead. Along with 4 billion other people.
The Bible isn't one book. It's a library of 66 books spanning thousands of years.
Thanks for the reply.
Are you aware that you have used the Bible to explain your belief in the Bible?
As I understand your reply, you believe you have a relationship with Jesus because you believe he exists, and that relationship will continue forever after you die.
You believe this because it says so in the Bible.
I know this is difficult to admit to yourself, I've seen it in others, but this is circular reasoning.
It's difficult to admit because we as humans are able to compartmentalise two opposing things in our mind at the same time. You can have a belief based on circular reasoning, and at the same time you can know that circular reasoning is not a good way to come to a conclusion on which to base a belief.
It's your job as a Christian to make sure that your belief is true. By only looking at the Bible, you are failing in this endeavour.
"The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going." Proverbs 14:15
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." 1 Thessalonians 5:21
You asked for Christian doctrine... What else did you want me to use? You said "pinpoint where in Christianity".
And Christianity is what you believe in. If you're telling me that the source of your beliefs is the reason for your beliefs, well, that's not a good way to know things.
I know this isn't easy, having your belief system exposed as untrustworthy. You can double down of course, which will make you feel better. Unfortunately it won't change reality.
You never asked me for my reason, you asked me for Christian doctrine, then acted like you asked for my reason in the first place.
No, I asked where in Christianity the idea comes from. You used doctrine to answer me, which is fine, but by doing so you revealed that your beliefs are derived from a book that tells you to have those beliefs.
I pointed this out to you because it's a problem, for you and for everyone else. We as humans should strive to make sure that the things we know are true, otherwise we get into all sorts of problems both as individuals and as a species.
What you are doing is basically accepting this -
You do realise that is not an argument at all? That's like saying "how do you know how to build this ikea bookshelf" "I read the instructions" "But you cannot use the instructions to prove that you are in possession of the ikea bookshelf"
You didn't ask me why I believed in Christianity. You asked me to specify what parts of Christianity said that salvation is free and then got upset when I referenced letters from the Bible, which is THE collection of documents about Christianity.
I feel like you weren't actually wanting to reason with this, and were just looking for a way to get me to quote Scripture so you could accuse me of circular reasoning and use your napkin image.
I think you've missed the point, but that's ok.
It really isn't, it's more like this -
"Why do you think you have an IKEA bookshelf, there really isn't any good reason to think so?"
"I have this instruction manual and it says I have one because it says so. That's good enough for me."
You can see how this looks from where I'm standing?
I asked in good faith, it's not in my nature to bait people. You're welcome to your opinion but it was your answer which caused me to go down that route. And please, no-one is upset here. If you really wanted to have a conversation, perhaps quoting scripture wasn't the best way to go about it.
You never asked me why I believed in Christianity. You asked me where in Christianity a specific doctrine was mentioned.
If you like. If I had wanted scripture quoted at me then I would have asked for that, but I asked about the concept. You could have explained the idea and referenced the quoted passages as you went along, but you choose not to and by doing so you didn't leave me with anything else to respond to.
This is a platform for communication and if you aren't here for that then it can only be assumed you have no desire to do anything other than to preach and proselytise.
I leave it to you whether that's something you wish to correct.
You said "Where in Christianity".
So I cannot answer the question the guy asks if you don't like my answer? I was asked who I thought the greatest person to ever live was. And I gave my answer. How is that not communicating?