Israel’s Brutality Is Increasing—and So Is Its Denialism
thenation.com
A human rights monitor documented the sniping of at least 13 children in and around Shifa Hospital, all between the ages of 4 and 16.
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A human rights monitor documented the sniping of at least 13 children in and around Shifa Hospital, all between the ages of 4 and 16.
The IDF has killed more people than Hamas has militants, mostly women and children. Precision targetted aid vehicles multiple times. The bodies of children shot by sniper fire have been examined and confirmed several times even before this escalation. If you are still so deluded by propaganda to say that Hamas is using human shields then there is no hope of discussion. I pray you go to Gaza yourself to witness hell.
There are zero confirmed reports of snipers killing little kids. How does glancing at a body determine if a shot was fired by a sniper rifle or a ricochet stray bullet from a firefight four blocks away? Have you seen what a sniper rifle does to a body? Doesn't leave much to examine. Doesn't look much different from a hundred other kinds of traumatic injuries, especially without an autopsy.
There are reports. All kinds of reports. A lot of them are third and fourth hand. Virtually all of them are unverified.
By my dude, building five hundred miles of tunnels in an area only 25 miles wide is literally using the entire area above the tunnels as human shields.
This is a good example of anti semitism. Hamas uses 2.5 million people as a human shield and that's perfectly fine with you. They get a pass because the news makes you sad. But not Israel. They used twenty five people as human shields and in your mind that's a war crime. That double standard doesn't make any sense, unless of course you give Hamas a pass because they are fielding soldiers to kill Jews. Seems kind of like that's the case. I mean, it's a very stark and obvious double standard.
There have been actual independent autospies done, I don't mean a quick glance at a body. And I would build tunnels too if my neighbor had a history of bombing me and seizing my terrority.
Every non-state militant group is claimed to use the civilian population as human shields. This simply isn't true, it's rhetoric to justify the bombing because it's simpler than fighting on the ground. In assymetric warfare a resistance group has no choice but to be active in the place they are stuck at. Even if they were using human shields, it shows the IDF is heartless because they have no concern for any civilian deaths, including Israeli hostages.
It's like if a bank robber took a hostage and a cop just blasted through them, killing half the bank. That would be horrific and unnecessary murder.
More like if a bank robber took a hostage and the police bulldozed their house, then the rest of the block "just to be sure" and "to send a message".
They could, I don't know, surrender, release the hostages, call for elections, etc., maybe have even slight tolerance to other cultures and try participating in trade? Nobody made Gaza put such short sighted leadership in charge. They don't have to choose to be isolated theocratic extremists with a singular purpose of ridding the holy land of infidels, labeled by all of the free world as a terrorist organization. There'd be peace in Gaza tomorrow if Hamas gave themselves up today. Even Japan eventually surrendered.
If Hamas wasn't there, an even more effective group would emerge to fight Israel. The offensive on Oct 7th was by a coalition of groups. You say no one made Gaza put them in charge, but Israel has spent millions propping up Hamas. They were chosen by Israel specifically because of their unpalatable extremism. Israel has supported Hamas materially while taking steps to thwart other groups. Israel has used all avenues possible for years to create the situation we see now.
Sounds like they had good reason to prop up Hamas at times to consolidate the most insane, most extreme religious ideologues, and it seems obvious that's the way to deal with such intellectual contagions. Like what is it you think Hamas believes in, as far as social order, jurisprudence, and justice? These are actual religious fascists who what to cleanse their holy land of infidels so that a few men can rule as absolute theocratic dictators whose ideas of law, morality, and human rights change with the wind, and they think that this is the actual future in store for them because God has chosen so.
I haven't looked at your post history but I'm virtually certain that you are lucky Israel and Egypt would prevent you from crossing Gaza's border, because Hamas would almost certainly kill you for your opinions on government, like immediately.
What tf does it matter what they believe when there is an ongoing slaughter of thousands of people? Palestine is more than Hamas. You say Hamas is evil but it's a good thing Israel put them in place? You are seriously heartless. I pray Israel is destroyed. According to your logic, it would be justified to kill every other Israeli at random to stop religious extremists in their government.
No I didn't say that. Israel didn't "put Hamas in place" and that is absolutely not my logic.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply you believe that, but you said it sounded like Israel had good reason to prop them up, and you didn't deny that Israeli policies allowed Hamas to take power in Gaza.
I'm sorry I called you heartless also, this is obviously a heated topic so I might take it a bit seriously, I don't know you though so I apologize, I don't assume anyone is heartless and it's a rude thing to say.
This guy has been spouting genocide justification in other threads as well, they're a lost cause. They've written essays about how all Palestinians are Hamas and should all be wiped out, denying that starvation is even happening, etc. Good luck trying to save this one!
That makes sense, I doubt I'll convince many people I argue with directly about anything, but I feel compelled to respond to Israeli apologia mostly for lurkers that might doubt the heinousness of the IDF, and to let anyone else know it won't go unchallenged, it's the very least I can do to defend the honor of the people being massacred. Obviously there is much more needed to be done.
I respect the effort. I feel like these conversations are many drops but are creating a collective tidal wave, I just find the concept of defending mass murder over learning something new is such an alien concept to me like I can't have conversations with people who are so bad faith, like, to a point where its homicidal. It's scary.
Someone said a revolution is a series of sparks that create a fire, I feel hopeful that even small things like helping someone see the truth of a situation can help. But yeah it can be baffling the perspectives people have, it's hard to believe they aren't a paid shill or something sometimes. Also In a way I see arguing with views so opposed to mine as a way to ensure my own beliefs are solidly supported.
Don't apologize to @JustZ@lemmy.world. He is a genocide denier who is oksy with dehumanizing Palestinians and denied any Israeli atrocities by calling them "just reports". If you prove him wrong, he will say that you "got tricked".
In my eyes he is just a racist.
Reporting some of his nonsense works but he only gets temp bans and then jumps right back into the quagmire of his own words.
True I shouldn't have apologized ha, I felt like I was being a bit harsh and don't like to make assumptions, but I hadn't looked through their posts or argued with them too much. I should know better. If anyone is doubting what's happening now it's not worth trying to argue.
Yep... that person told me they know more about apartheid than south africa... this is what we are dealing with.
https://lemmy.world/comment/7866311
I find it so pathetic... he thinks he is the one who is "awakened" and we are all jusy blind. I'm sure it brings him some kind of satisfaction thinking he is smarter than everyone else while cheering for the literal mass killing of school children and and piles of innocent adults now rendered to dead decaying bodies.
The IDF have been demolishing residential buildings after seizing them. The IDF destroyed medical equipment, supplies and set fires on floors of al-Shifa hospital after raiding it. They target journalists in their home and kill their entire families with air strikes. Can you tell me the 'good reason' for these acts? What reason do you have for supporting atrocities like what Israel has been doing for years?
Detailing of children killed by sniper fire (graphic video)
A brain scan shows a bullet lodged in the skull of an eight-year-old Palestinian girl. Photograph: Courtesy Dr Vanita Gupta
Report of the Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1967. I didn't realize so much was documented in one place, if you want to read about what's been happening, the full pdf is on the page with citations.
you're sick
There are reports of 500 miles of tunnels and Hamas using people as sheild.
Idf showing 2 tunnels and claiming 500 miles is just as valid as showing 300 deaths and claiming genocide. If you can trust the first then trust the second too.
That Israelis are genocidal maniacs.
There's one way to stop them. Treat them like we should have treated Nazi high command after the war.
If we do decide to leave some alive, do not let them leave Palestine, ever, under any conditions. Do not let them own property. Do not let them hold management positions. Let them live only on the charity of the Palestinian people, and be allowed to die if it is not forthcoming.
I guess it depends on how you define "little kids".
14 year old girl?
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/2/8/israeli-sniper-kills-palestinian-girl-in-front-of-gaza-hospital
6 year old girl?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/10/body-of-6-year-old-killed-in-deliberate-israeli-fire-found-after-12-days
Boy of unknown age?
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231225-an-israeli-sniper-targeted-a-palestinian-childs-hand-in-gaza/
8 and 15 year old?
https://english.ahram.org.eg/News/513138.aspx
14 year old boy?
https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_shoot_kill_14_year_old_palestinian_boy_in_al_far_a_refugee_camp
As the OP notes, this is nothing new.
9 year old in 2019:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-07-21/ty-article/.premium/the-protest-dispersed-then-an-israeli-sniper-shot-a-9-year-old-boy-in-the-head/0000017f-e3ff-d9aa-afff-fbffde890000
14 year old in 2004:
https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/103643
You have to be joking right now with these links?
First one is a 56 second TikTok video with no credible reporting attached to it. Just the bald statements of someone in social media and some video clips that do not show any gunfire whatsoever. Hardly proves the kid was intentionally sniped. Is this what you accept as credible evidence of something? Also, like, Al Jazeera? Qatari state media with no credibility when it comes to Gaza. They followed none of the usual standards of journalistic integrity. Very clear state sponsored agenda. Obviously they are exaggerating and serving up the most scandalous, unverified "reports" and portraying them as fact. Next.
Second link, another Al Jazeera, this one is a third hand report that does not have anything to do with your claim that Israel is sniping kids. Even giving you an assumption that every fact alleged is true, at best it shows that the IDF shot a car that happened to have a kid in it. Obviously there are cars all over the place in Gaza, and so the IDF clearly isn't just going in and lighting up any car that they see. Perhaps this car was driving toward the tank that shot it? It is not proof that Israel knowingly targeting a kid, and it has nothing to do with snipers.
Third link, MEMo this time, also Qatari state media, a 15 second clip with a bald allegation that the kid's hand got shot by a sniper. Nothing in this link doesn't prove that the claim isn't entirely made up by Qatari State media and slapped onto a 15 second clip of a kid with a blurred out hand. You really accept that as proof that the IDF intentionally sniped this kid? How can the kid or the doctor or anyone seeing this know it was sniper fire and not a ricochet, or a piece of shrapnel and not even a bullet?
Fourth link, now jumping over to Egyptian state media. Still liars but with different motives. At least in this one they concede the kid was trespassing in a secured military area. The description doesn't sound like sniper fire though, sounds like automatic rifles. That's a far stretch from lining up right on a kid and blasting for no reason.
Fifth one, sounds legit even after sorting through the the extra innuendo and looking at the reported facts. Should be investigated. The tenor of your allegation is that Israeli snipers are literally just out plinking kids. This kid was on top of a building near a firefight and an active special forces raid, watching it go down. Maybe they thought he had a weapon or was acting as a spotter. If the special forces, trained sniper plinked a kid without following rules of engagement, the sniper should spend the rest of their life in a military prison. But I think Netanyahu is like Trump, promotes people who would let this guy off, like that sniper Trump pardoned
That's all the time I have right now.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Israel has murdered over 10,000 kids in Gaza. Snipers aside. It's absolutely inexcusable.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war
"Children account for more than one in three of the more than 32,000 people killed in Israel’s months-long assault on Gaza, according to the Palestinian health ministry. Tens of thousands more young people have suffered severe injuries, including amputations."
And, again, not new. Israel has been doing this for DECADES.
"Israeli and foreign human rights groups have documented a long history of snipers firing on unarmed Palestinians, including children, in Gaza and the West Bank."
They documented it with the same articles you documented it with.
Then all just cite each other and then ask for more donations, round and round.
Again, because Israel has been doing this FOR DECADES.
Doing what for decades? You provided like seven links. I looked at five, the first four of them were entirely bullshit that failed to support your claim. The fifth one proved half your claim and not the controversial half.
If you start sorting through all the bullshit instead of reposting it, it's very obvious who wants the violence to continue and who does not.
Killing Palestinian children.
Yeah, sometimes. Kids die in a warzones, especially at this unprecedented level where the non-uniformed fighting force of a criminal enterprise masquerading as a government uses entire cities as human shields, those co-lateral deaths are different in kind to trained sharpshooters of a uniformed army wantonly shooting children, directly (and getting away with it). Blame for every kid rests with Gaza's leadership, who put their own people and families in harms way, even the aid truck. What was October 7 if not an invitation to food aid trucks and their crews to come on out to a warzone, where negligence and war crimes--as well as the how-ever-many years of martial law the Hamas holdouts force upon Gaza during reconstruction and reconstitution--are exactly the sort of foreseeable harm and casualty that make starting or prolonging war so atrocious for humanity in the first place?
And I don't give Israel one pass on legit war crime just because atrocity is foreseeable, but like c'mon: 4.5 out of your first 5 pieces of evidence for your claim of Israel sniping kids utterly fell apart under a level of scrutiny mundane to basic media literacy. Doesn't that give you pause to think maybe some of the other views that Qatari state media keep validating for you might be equally misinformed?