They'll just give ot away in the next debt ceiling "debate" so what's the point of electing dems? It is hardly sending a rebuke to congress to elect one of the two parties. I would rather vote for an actual leftist that loses and causes the dems to lose too than vote for a dem and barley win. We don't advance voting in dems that don't represent us, but just represent Republicans not winning. Cia would kill them, but such is life.
I would rather vote for an actual leftist that loses and causes the dems to lose too than vote for a dem and barley win.
A vote for a leftist with no chance to win is a vote for the conservatives. It sucks, but such is the nature of the two-party system.
Maybe if the dems never win the Republicans won't have anyone else to blame anymore and they would lose popularity and we could get over them I'm twenty years instead of them gaining steam. Maybe. But climate change is gonna wreck havoc before we try anything other than weak resistance.
Also funny enough my username is yours backwards. Lol
if the dems never win the Republicans won’t have anyone else to blame anymore
I think you severely underestimate their ability to find scapegoats.
So your solution to the Dems occasionally enabling the Reps' evil is to put the Reps in power so that they can enact their evil freely with no opposition at all? Sorry, but I'm not convinced by that logic.
You remind me of myself when I was younger. And I hope you are right.
It's not my job to hold Republicans to task. It's republican voters that do that. It's republican voters that you need to reach. And it is republican voters that you need to convince that this system isn't working. At least with a real leftist party all of the "the LEFT!" Discourse won't be about democrats anymore.
Oh also good luck holding democrats to anything after voting for them.
It’s not my job to hold Republicans to task. It’s republican voters that do that.
Oh also good luck holding democrats to anything after voting for them.
And you think Republicans are going to have any more success with their representatives? It is your job to hold Republicans to task, by voting someone else in. And there's only one other party that has any chance of success at that.
At least with a real leftist party all of the “the LEFT!” Discourse won’t be about democrats anymore.
It's already not really about them. The Dems do only a fraction of what the conservatives accuse them of. The whining about "the left" is going to be based on a persecution fetish fantasy completely divorced from reality regardless of whether the left in America is the Dems and/or some other party.
And some people vote for Republicans only for a single issue, mostly guns. There suddenly being a pro gun, socially left party as an option would do more damage to the republican base than having another four years of Joe Biden. Honestly at this point I think we start a grass roots effort to elect Queen Latifah without her campaigning.
Only about 30% of Americans own a gun, and only a fraction of those are single-issue Republican voters. Establishing such a left-wing party might put a dent in the Republican base, but it would sunder the Democratic one and ensure unopposed Republican rule likely in perpetuity (they'd just seize power; already they're barely managing to keep the mask of democracy from falling off).
The whole gun issue is a total distraction that does nothing other than galvanize the Rep base. The Dems should just avoid stirring the hornet's nest and ignore it altogether.
I don't think you are putting the right context on that 30% own a gun (and around half that don't could see themselves owning one in the future).
In 2020 American's came out to vote in larger numbers than has been seen in over 100 years and still only 2/3rds of people voted. So of that 66.6 percent about 51% voted for Biden. So that means about 33.79% of Americans voted for the democrat presidential candidate... in the largest turn out in modern history.
The NRA sways a lot of people with threats that the democrats want to "take their guns" but Republicans don't hear that as a funny eye roll phrase. They 1000% think electing a Democrat is electing someone who will send the army to search their house and steal their property. They fully believe that is months from happening at all times.
The NRA sways a lot of people with threats that the democrats want to “take their guns” but Republicans don’t hear that as a funny eye roll phrase. They 1000% think electing a Democrat is electing someone who will send the army to search their house and steal their property. They fully believe that is months from happening at all times.
That's my point precisely. These people keep believing that the Dems are about to seize their guns regardless of how many Dem administrations come and go without it happening, so there's no point trying to persuade them or reason with them. (At this point one might draw some parallels with expecting the imminent second coming of Jesus, which is also a popular belief in these circles.) Even if a pro-gun leftist party were established, these people would just be fed propaganda that its pro-gun stance is a scam, and they'd buy it hook, line, and sinker and vote against it. These entrenched right-wing voters are beyond saving, and focusing on them is a waste of time and resources that would instead be better spent mobilizing the apathetic left-leaning masses.
mobilizing the apathetic left-leaning masses.
And how does voting for Joe Biden help us reach them? We need democrats to believe they need to reach left, not right. But they are a center/right party at this point and expecting them to go left because you want them to is lunacy.
Republicans got you believing that voting for democrats that support them is your only option.
They’ll just give ot away in the next debt ceiling “debate”
You mean like how they gave it away in the last one?
Oh wait, Biden played the Republicans like a harpsichord last time they pulled that crap.
Yeah, stuffing Congress full of actual leftists would be better, but let's not pretend these Democrats are completely incompetent.
Well, if getting defence spending up 3%, capping all non-defence discretion spending, requiring an end date to student loan repayment holds, and actually getting money to the IRS so they can do their job is all Biden "playing him like a harpsichord"... really don't want to see what him sucking up is like.
Somebody's gotta do it, and I don't see the rest of the civilized world chipping in.
capping all non-defence discretion spending
Yep, that's what tends to happen when Americans vote Republican. Protip: don't vote Republican.
requiring an end date to student loan repayment holds
A setback, nothing more. There have been headlines of further attempts to get student debt forgiven, and again, filling Congress with Democrats will get it done.
actually getting money to the IRS so they can do their job
Over the vigorous objections of Republican billionaires who desperately don't want to get caught evading taxes. That's a big deal.
really don’t want to see what him sucking up is like.
You already did see it, in 2017 through 2021. It, uh, was not good.
Two steps forward and two steps back until it's your kids turn to pick up the mantle.
They passed it. And managed to (so far) preserve it, and look likely to keep on doing so to the best of their ability with the possible exception of a handful who are bought off. I'll work to elect them because of that.
If that is all you require than I wish you the best.
They'll just give ot away in the next debt ceiling "debate" so what's the point of electing dems? It is hardly sending a rebuke to congress to elect one of the two parties. I would rather vote for an actual leftist that loses and causes the dems to lose too than vote for a dem and barley win. We don't advance voting in dems that don't represent us, but just represent Republicans not winning. Cia would kill them, but such is life.
A vote for a leftist with no chance to win is a vote for the conservatives. It sucks, but such is the nature of the two-party system.
Maybe if the dems never win the Republicans won't have anyone else to blame anymore and they would lose popularity and we could get over them I'm twenty years instead of them gaining steam. Maybe. But climate change is gonna wreck havoc before we try anything other than weak resistance.
Also funny enough my username is yours backwards. Lol
I think you severely underestimate their ability to find scapegoats.
Any hope is better than this: https://www.techdirt.com/2023/07/26/pass-it-pass-it-pass-it-pass-it-pass-it-the-president-says-about-a-bill-the-gop-says-will-be-useful-to-silence-lgbtq-voices/
From the front page this morning.
So your solution to the Dems occasionally enabling the Reps' evil is to put the Reps in power so that they can enact their evil freely with no opposition at all? Sorry, but I'm not convinced by that logic.
You remind me of myself when I was younger. And I hope you are right.
It's not my job to hold Republicans to task. It's republican voters that do that. It's republican voters that you need to reach. And it is republican voters that you need to convince that this system isn't working. At least with a real leftist party all of the "the LEFT!" Discourse won't be about democrats anymore.
Oh also good luck holding democrats to anything after voting for them.
And you think Republicans are going to have any more success with their representatives? It is your job to hold Republicans to task, by voting someone else in. And there's only one other party that has any chance of success at that.
It's already not really about them. The Dems do only a fraction of what the conservatives accuse them of. The whining about "the left" is going to be based on a persecution fetish fantasy completely divorced from reality regardless of whether the left in America is the Dems and/or some other party.
And some people vote for Republicans only for a single issue, mostly guns. There suddenly being a pro gun, socially left party as an option would do more damage to the republican base than having another four years of Joe Biden. Honestly at this point I think we start a grass roots effort to elect Queen Latifah without her campaigning.
Only about 30% of Americans own a gun, and only a fraction of those are single-issue Republican voters. Establishing such a left-wing party might put a dent in the Republican base, but it would sunder the Democratic one and ensure unopposed Republican rule likely in perpetuity (they'd just seize power; already they're barely managing to keep the mask of democracy from falling off).
The whole gun issue is a total distraction that does nothing other than galvanize the Rep base. The Dems should just avoid stirring the hornet's nest and ignore it altogether.
I don't think you are putting the right context on that 30% own a gun (and around half that don't could see themselves owning one in the future).
In 2020 American's came out to vote in larger numbers than has been seen in over 100 years and still only 2/3rds of people voted. So of that 66.6 percent about 51% voted for Biden. So that means about 33.79% of Americans voted for the democrat presidential candidate... in the largest turn out in modern history.
The NRA sways a lot of people with threats that the democrats want to "take their guns" but Republicans don't hear that as a funny eye roll phrase. They 1000% think electing a Democrat is electing someone who will send the army to search their house and steal their property. They fully believe that is months from happening at all times.
That's my point precisely. These people keep believing that the Dems are about to seize their guns regardless of how many Dem administrations come and go without it happening, so there's no point trying to persuade them or reason with them. (At this point one might draw some parallels with expecting the imminent second coming of Jesus, which is also a popular belief in these circles.) Even if a pro-gun leftist party were established, these people would just be fed propaganda that its pro-gun stance is a scam, and they'd buy it hook, line, and sinker and vote against it. These entrenched right-wing voters are beyond saving, and focusing on them is a waste of time and resources that would instead be better spent mobilizing the apathetic left-leaning masses.
And how does voting for Joe Biden help us reach them? We need democrats to believe they need to reach left, not right. But they are a center/right party at this point and expecting them to go left because you want them to is lunacy.
Republicans got you believing that voting for democrats that support them is your only option.
You mean like how they gave it away in the last one?
Oh wait, Biden played the Republicans like a harpsichord last time they pulled that crap.
Yeah, stuffing Congress full of actual leftists would be better, but let's not pretend these Democrats are completely incompetent.
Well, if getting defence spending up 3%, capping all non-defence discretion spending, requiring an end date to student loan repayment holds, and actually getting money to the IRS so they can do their job is all Biden "playing him like a harpsichord"... really don't want to see what him sucking up is like.
Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/05/29/whats-in-the-debt-ceiling-deal-struck-by-biden-and-mccarthy.html
Somebody's gotta do it, and I don't see the rest of the civilized world chipping in.
Yep, that's what tends to happen when Americans vote Republican. Protip: don't vote Republican.
A setback, nothing more. There have been headlines of further attempts to get student debt forgiven, and again, filling Congress with Democrats will get it done.
Over the vigorous objections of Republican billionaires who desperately don't want to get caught evading taxes. That's a big deal.
You already did see it, in 2017 through 2021. It, uh, was not good.
Two steps forward and two steps back until it's your kids turn to pick up the mantle.
They passed it. And managed to (so far) preserve it, and look likely to keep on doing so to the best of their ability with the possible exception of a handful who are bought off. I'll work to elect them because of that.
If that is all you require than I wish you the best.