Near the end of his life, he was back in the US. Thought he was being shadowed. Took therapy, medicine, treatment for hypertention.
Years later, it turned out that he was being shadowed. The man was working on his mental health, confirmed by doctors to be paranoia. The FBI was shadowing him because of his work in cuba.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
This is probably true of a lot of covert operations. Thanks for the history, I did not know that!
During pre-colonial times, the French and the British went over to America. Their domains overlapped on the Canadian border where the Iroquois nation (actual emphasis on "nation") lived, and a three way war began between the three nations, since the British wanted to spread itself (because did you expect anything else from them) and the French were trying to establish outposts while the Iroquois didn't like intrusion on what it considered to be a neat system it built, even though they didn't have as much issue with the actual missions.
The Iroquois, believe it or not, were champion warriors and pretty much wiping the floor against both of them until thirteen of the twenty colonies (yes, there were twenty colonies, not thirteen) started to rise up, and the British sided with the natives they realized were the powerhouse they were. The only issue is those natives were still susceptible to internal strife which allowed the to-be United States to win and take Upstate New York (which was the Iroquois homeland, and yes, the border between the conquered parts of New York and the parts that were in the state precolonially would objectively be the most correct line to mark where Downstate officially ends) and Vermont (which was claimed by the Iroquois but never formal territory). The British, having lost, left the area and gave the natives the cold shoulder because the natives were still viewed as barbarians, even up to the establishment of the league of nations hundreds of years later where those natives were denied membership (since the Iroquois rump state in exile still exists).
Of note, I really shouldn't be calling them the Iroquois (their name was the Haudenosaunee), Iroqu was the Algonquin word for "serpent" (the Algonquins were like the Russia to the Haudenosaunee's Ukraine) and was a slur the French unknowingly picked up and popularized/coined, but very few people would connect the dots if I just referred to them as the Haudenosaunee.
The movie "Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides" comes to mind.
All the major characters are racing to find the Fountain of Youth, but all for different reasons. It's a very entertaining movie.
The spoiler reasons for each:
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler
The British want to find the Fountain to stop the Spanish from getting it.
The Spanish want to find the Fountain to destroy it.
Blackbeard wants to find the Fountain to use it to live forever.
Blackbeard's daughter wants the Fountain for her father.
Jack Sparrow wants to find the Fountain so Blackbeard doesn't kill him. (And also to save Blackbeard's daughter.)
Barbossa wants to find the Fountain so that he can kill Blackbeard. (And also he sides with the British to accomplish his revenge).
:::
A lot of multiparty civil wars have different sides with mutually exclusive goals.
If you want to talk about boardgames, there are games like Root where different factions have their own separate rules that conflict with allowing multiple people being able to win.
Idk.
Any of the dozens of times the US has engaged a military in the last 50 years?
Yeah, I think asymmetric warfare is they key word I was grasping for.
I guess I wonder what other games, besides geopolitical competitions (or conflicts specifically) represent similar asymmetry
Ever played one of the "Betrayal at _________" boardgames?
If not, you should!
I really dislike it. Maybe the newer versions are better but there were some very confusing details about the actions and you can't really ask without letting people know your secret objective. Plus, if a newer player is randomly assigned betrayer mid game? Good luck helping them without reading their rules.
Oh thanks for the tip! I'm going to try out the baldurs gate one
That's actually the one I own! It's a blast and full of little D&D references, but you don't have to know anything about D&D to play.
The Democratic and Republican parties
What was a time that two adversaries had such different objectives...
Then, would they be adversaries in any meaningful way? I mean, fighting against someone means both must be competing for the... same objective, resources, whatever. If they aren't they aren't competing.
In chess there is a fairly common situation where you are in first place in the last round of a tournament, 1/2 of a point ahead of your opponent (you get 1 point for winning a game and 1/2 point for a draw). So if you win or draw the game, you win the tournament and get a lot of money. If you lose the game, your opponent wins the tournament and gets the money. You get 2nd place, i.e. less money possibly split with other competitors.
That means you can choose a safe playing strategy that likely leads to a draw, while your opponent has to choose a risky strategy with higher chances of winning.
(Some chess context: high level games are usually drawn. They are only won by someone making a mistake. Also, the first move (white pieces) confers an advantage, so it's usual to seek winning opportunities if you have white, while just trying to hold the draw if you have black. To attempt winning with black requires seriously risky play. Bobby Fischer basically conquered chess in the 1960's by constantly trying to do that, which required playing with maniacal intensity all the time).
Definitely the most interesting comment here. Thanks.
I get that but, no matter their strategy, aren't they still competing against one another for the same resources: a (better) ranking in the leaderboard?
Maybe I have to go to the bathroom and I see a janitor making their way towards the same bathroom. We both start an all out sprint for the bathroom door. In this moment we are both adversaries, but his goal is to clean and my goal is to evacuate my bowels. Sure we are competing for the same resource, the bathroom, but our objectives with the bathroom are different. You could also say we are almost playing a different game, he's trying to not spill his mop bucket and I'm clenching my cheeks.
But those are just different debuffs!
Replying to myself, in the hope of being read by the people downvoting my first comment: you realize silently downvoting doesn't help me understand the slightest why you disagree with what I wrote and where I may be mistaken, right?
I didn't downvote you, I think you offered a thoughtful critique of the question.
Even if parties have wildly different objectives or winning conditions, if they didn't have to compete for the same resources then they could cooperate or at least ignore each other. That wouldn't be true if it were a race to finish first, but in that case they've started competing for the resource of time.
Maybe some folks thought it was a cop out answer, since I was seeking new perspectives rather than a reason to not ask for them? But, I think your response can help guide responses to even more extreme examples than some potentially topical ones by taking you up on your challenge.
Even if parties have wildly different objectives or winning conditions, if they didn’t have to compete for the same resources then they could cooperate or at least ignore each other.
I think that ignoring each other is probably the most common thing happening. One can look at wild animals sharing the same living space without fighting (or not, depending if they're prey/predator to one another). Competition and fight happen when there is something disputed between them, bet it one serving as food to the other or some common resources. At least, as far as I understand it. It's not that different for us, human animals ;)
I didn’t downvote you,
I did not designated anyone in particular, I was just trying to encourage whoever downvoted to also express their motivation/reasoning. I'm more than willing to learn from my mistakes, but I can't learn shit without at the very least some form of an argument beside 'Nah, don't like u/what u said' (which is perfectly fine by me, just not very... interesting).
Maybe some folks thought it was a cop out answer,
Thx, I did not know that expression and had to check its meaning. I can confirm it wasn't a cop out, just the question that crossed my mind when I started reflecting on the OP question (a question I may have poorly understood, though, as English is not my first language).
Hemingway and the FBI.
Near the end of his life, he was back in the US. Thought he was being shadowed. Took therapy, medicine, treatment for hypertention.
Years later, it turned out that he was being shadowed. The man was working on his mental health, confirmed by doctors to be paranoia. The FBI was shadowing him because of his work in cuba.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
This is probably true of a lot of covert operations. Thanks for the history, I did not know that!
During pre-colonial times, the French and the British went over to America. Their domains overlapped on the Canadian border where the Iroquois nation (actual emphasis on "nation") lived, and a three way war began between the three nations, since the British wanted to spread itself (because did you expect anything else from them) and the French were trying to establish outposts while the Iroquois didn't like intrusion on what it considered to be a neat system it built, even though they didn't have as much issue with the actual missions.
The Iroquois, believe it or not, were champion warriors and pretty much wiping the floor against both of them until thirteen of the twenty colonies (yes, there were twenty colonies, not thirteen) started to rise up, and the British sided with the natives they realized were the powerhouse they were. The only issue is those natives were still susceptible to internal strife which allowed the to-be United States to win and take Upstate New York (which was the Iroquois homeland, and yes, the border between the conquered parts of New York and the parts that were in the state precolonially would objectively be the most correct line to mark where Downstate officially ends) and Vermont (which was claimed by the Iroquois but never formal territory). The British, having lost, left the area and gave the natives the cold shoulder because the natives were still viewed as barbarians, even up to the establishment of the league of nations hundreds of years later where those natives were denied membership (since the Iroquois rump state in exile still exists).
Of note, I really shouldn't be calling them the Iroquois (their name was the Haudenosaunee), Iroqu was the Algonquin word for "serpent" (the Algonquins were like the Russia to the Haudenosaunee's Ukraine) and was a slur the French unknowingly picked up and popularized/coined, but very few people would connect the dots if I just referred to them as the Haudenosaunee.
https://youtu.be/Skawrfm0AIM?si=0IUWba-Vvkc2jheG
Seriously though this piqued a lot of interest for me. Thank you for this compact packet of fascinating info!
lists off every political party
🤣
The movie "Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides" comes to mind.
All the major characters are racing to find the Fountain of Youth, but all for different reasons. It's a very entertaining movie.
The spoiler reasons for each:
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler The British want to find the Fountain to stop the Spanish from getting it.
The Spanish want to find the Fountain to destroy it.
Blackbeard wants to find the Fountain to use it to live forever.
Blackbeard's daughter wants the Fountain for her father.
Jack Sparrow wants to find the Fountain so Blackbeard doesn't kill him. (And also to save Blackbeard's daughter.)
Barbossa wants to find the Fountain so that he can kill Blackbeard. (And also he sides with the British to accomplish his revenge). :::
A lot of multiparty civil wars have different sides with mutually exclusive goals.
If you want to talk about boardgames, there are games like Root where different factions have their own separate rules that conflict with allowing multiple people being able to win.
Idk.
Any of the dozens of times the US has engaged a military in the last 50 years?
Yeah, I think asymmetric warfare is they key word I was grasping for.
I guess I wonder what other games, besides geopolitical competitions (or conflicts specifically) represent similar asymmetry
Ever played one of the "Betrayal at _________" boardgames?
If not, you should!
I really dislike it. Maybe the newer versions are better but there were some very confusing details about the actions and you can't really ask without letting people know your secret objective. Plus, if a newer player is randomly assigned betrayer mid game? Good luck helping them without reading their rules.
Oh thanks for the tip! I'm going to try out the baldurs gate one
That's actually the one I own! It's a blast and full of little D&D references, but you don't have to know anything about D&D to play.
The Democratic and Republican parties
Then, would they be adversaries in any meaningful way? I mean, fighting against someone means both must be competing for the... same objective, resources, whatever. If they aren't they aren't competing.
In chess there is a fairly common situation where you are in first place in the last round of a tournament, 1/2 of a point ahead of your opponent (you get 1 point for winning a game and 1/2 point for a draw). So if you win or draw the game, you win the tournament and get a lot of money. If you lose the game, your opponent wins the tournament and gets the money. You get 2nd place, i.e. less money possibly split with other competitors.
That means you can choose a safe playing strategy that likely leads to a draw, while your opponent has to choose a risky strategy with higher chances of winning.
(Some chess context: high level games are usually drawn. They are only won by someone making a mistake. Also, the first move (white pieces) confers an advantage, so it's usual to seek winning opportunities if you have white, while just trying to hold the draw if you have black. To attempt winning with black requires seriously risky play. Bobby Fischer basically conquered chess in the 1960's by constantly trying to do that, which required playing with maniacal intensity all the time).
Definitely the most interesting comment here. Thanks.
I get that but, no matter their strategy, aren't they still competing against one another for the same resources: a (better) ranking in the leaderboard?
Maybe I have to go to the bathroom and I see a janitor making their way towards the same bathroom. We both start an all out sprint for the bathroom door. In this moment we are both adversaries, but his goal is to clean and my goal is to evacuate my bowels. Sure we are competing for the same resource, the bathroom, but our objectives with the bathroom are different. You could also say we are almost playing a different game, he's trying to not spill his mop bucket and I'm clenching my cheeks.
But those are just different debuffs!
Replying to myself, in the hope of being read by the people downvoting my first comment: you realize silently downvoting doesn't help me understand the slightest why you disagree with what I wrote and where I may be mistaken, right?
I didn't downvote you, I think you offered a thoughtful critique of the question.
Even if parties have wildly different objectives or winning conditions, if they didn't have to compete for the same resources then they could cooperate or at least ignore each other. That wouldn't be true if it were a race to finish first, but in that case they've started competing for the resource of time.
Maybe some folks thought it was a cop out answer, since I was seeking new perspectives rather than a reason to not ask for them? But, I think your response can help guide responses to even more extreme examples than some potentially topical ones by taking you up on your challenge.
I think that ignoring each other is probably the most common thing happening. One can look at wild animals sharing the same living space without fighting (or not, depending if they're prey/predator to one another). Competition and fight happen when there is something disputed between them, bet it one serving as food to the other or some common resources. At least, as far as I understand it. It's not that different for us, human animals ;)
I did not designated anyone in particular, I was just trying to encourage whoever downvoted to also express their motivation/reasoning. I'm more than willing to learn from my mistakes, but I can't learn shit without at the very least some form of an argument beside 'Nah, don't like u/what u said' (which is perfectly fine by me, just not very... interesting).
Thx, I did not know that expression and had to check its meaning. I can confirm it wasn't a cop out, just the question that crossed my mind when I started reflecting on the OP question (a question I may have poorly understood, though, as English is not my first language).