What’s with these anti-Biden strawmen/nonsense posts?
One, of course Trump and Republicans will continue funding Israel. Two, it’s a false dichotomy/strawman because nobody has said we have to continue funding Israel to prevent Trump from winning. How would that make any sense?
when you say don't vote for biden as a protest against his funding of genocide, which seems to be the most effective way to move him on it, you get called a trumper and that its your fault for fascism.
What does a protest non-vote accomplish? There's moral satisfaction, of course, but that doesn't stop the genocide. If the goal of the protest non-vote is to ensure Biden loses to teach the Dems a lesson, and it works, Trump becomes president. That's almost certainly just a continuation of the genocide PLUS all the harm Project 2025 promises to deliver. MAYBE the Dems put up a more progressive candidate next time, but surely we could try to get that power between election cycles?
I guess I just don't think protest non-votes will accomplish any of the goals of that protest, but they will allow Trump to live his best fascist dictator life.
I dunno, is there something I'm missing from your strategic calculus here?
All Biden has to do is pick up the phone, say "no more money, no more arms" and he gets everyones vote. People have been protesting this for a LONG time. Longer than since Oct 7th. They don't listen, they have actively silenced and doxxed protestors and even college students. "From the river to the sea, palestine will be free" is not allowed on college campuses. And we are living under so-called democratic president.
So Rashida says vote uncommitted, on a fucking primary, and all of a sudden, lo and behold, we are listened to.
The idea is to get Biden to stop sending all of our money and weapons over there. Painting everyone calling on Biden for a ceasefire as a fool or worse, MAGA, is simply the blue brand of MAGA.
MAGA is also about: hating LGBT, demonizing immigrants, worshiping wealthy people, opposing labor, hating the idea of government and taxes in general, banning abortion, large trucks, packing courts with conservatives, political corruption, and even things like removing the right for women to vote. Pretty sure US Liberals and Democrats haven't stood up for those things at all.
Biden, despite being President, does not get to make every decision himself. It is shameful that he has supported Israel this much so far, after it was clear they were doing far more than simple defense or retaliation, but the vast majority of US politicians have for Israel's entire existence. Acting like Biden can unilaterally solve the problems with the US-Israel political alliance is naive. Acting like Biden's actions were entirely due to some 'uncommitted' votes instantly is also naive.
We can argue that neoliberals like Biden and the current establishment Democrats are hating of the QIA+ part of the LGBTQIA+ community, climate activists, climate refugees, direct action initiatives, grassroots movements, just to name whats off the top of my head. They also have a disdain for poor people but historically yes have made things more accessible, on paper. If you are disabled, queer, non-white, neurodivergent or an intersection of those things, you are second class and that is the lived experience. The way they talk and the way they spend and lobby shows that they also want to push an ableist, classist agenda that only allows certain diversity to a point before it becomes too inconvenient or uncomfortable.
Okay, so.... your belief is that Biden and the Democrats do no support queer, intersex and
asexual individuals? What does that even mean? Climate activists? Okay... refugees? Seems like a combo of issues. "direct action initiatives, grassroots movements" is very vague.
They also have a disdain for poor people
Please consider we are comparing them to Republicans since that's our realistic alternative. Democrats support a social safety net. Republicans fight against EVERY form of social(ist) support with legislation and propaganda. Let's list the states which denied accepting federal funds to expand Medicaid... hmm... and no, it has nothing at all to do with "disabled, queer, non-white, neurodivergent or an intersection of those things" as they specifically help those people. As noted, we are comparing them to fucking republicans. What you're saying makes almost no sense at all. Are you confusing Democrats with Republicans? Do you even live in the US?
Okay, so you ignored half of what I said and are continuing to your primary agenda, Israel. Tell me how Trump being elected will help the Palestinian cause.
Democrats gave a cushy border deal to Republicans knowing they'd refuse it over electoral concerns and guess what, they did. Again: either a Democrat or Republican will be elected for each seat available in the upcoming elections. How will a Republican taking office help migrants?
Democrats support a social safety net. Republicans fight against EVERY form of social(ist) support with legislation and propaganda. Let’s list the states which denied accepting federal funds to expand Medicaid… hmm… and no, it has nothing at all to do with “disabled, queer, non-white, neurodivergent or an intersection of those things” as they specifically help those people. As noted, we are comparing them to fucking republicans. What you’re saying makes almost no sense at all. Are you confusing Democrats with Republicans?
If democrats care so much about marginialized peoples, why are they not donating to these peoples gofundmes? Or responding to their calls for mutual aid? Because it cuts into the neoliberal commodification and privitization of public assistance.
"This “neo-liberalization of social services” transformed charity into an industry where professionalism, maintaining tax-exempt status, and uplifting the needs of corporate donors and capitalist foundations fueled the work. Now, the nonprofit system encourages social movements to follow capitalist models, is monitored and influenced by state and corporate entities, and is generally focused on employing educated workers to the helping profession rather than mass activist organizing.11 Conversely, mutual aid organizers are attuned to the needs of the collective over any other stakeholder, and the lines between those offering and receiving assistance are blurred."
Democrats are closer in class and ethics to republicans than they are to the working class. They are all friends and colleagues of each other, not sworn mortal enemies like they portray.
Its hard to differentiate Dems from Repubs since they both seem to want the working class to dissolve.
Tell me how Trump being elected will help the Palestinian cause.
Nobody thinks that.
Democrats gave a cushy border deal to Republicans knowing they’d refuse it over electoral concerns and guess what, they did. Again: either a Democrat or Republican will be elected for each seat available in the upcoming elections. How will a Republican taking office help migrants?
the link referring to the border issue is talking about biden concocting a trump era border policy in executive order style, so not about the deal he tried to make with repubs. the dems don't want more people crossing the border either.
biden cant unilaterally solve the problems of the the US but he can stop weapons and money going to a genocide.
EDIT: adding citations as to why biden is not that labor friendly:
The Democratic Party doesn’t fully represent their voters, it’s true. It also seems you didn’t/can’t read the article in your first link. However, I am pragmatic and while I’d love to reform the Democratic Party, the republicans are MUCH WORSE about EVERYTHING.
You’re very good at ranting and criticizing democrats while ignoring 80% of what I respond with.
Tell me how Trump being elected will help the Palestinian cause.
Nobody thinks that.
WOW, really? Well let’s just “both sides!!” it and discourage Biden voters so we can get Danald Tramp elected anyway. After all, 50% of democrats going along with some bullshit vote condemning dictators is just as bad as 100% of republicans doing so, and means they’re indistinguishable.
It also seems you didn’t/can’t read the article in your first link
What the one about the "horrors" of socialism? If there are any horrors of socialism, its that it allowed capitalism to exist. Everything the US condemns "socialist and communist" countries of is usually just a projection of its own bullshit.
You’re very good at ranting and criticizing democrats while ignoring 80% of what I respond with.
I'm not sure which parts i didn't respond to, can you clarify? otherwise stop moving the goalposts
WOW, really? Well let’s just “both sides!!” it and discourage Biden voters so we can get Danald Tramp elected anyway
I encourage people to vote for whoever they want. If they can vote uncommitted on a primary to show they dont support him thats amazing and will not risk the election to trump as y'all like to keep screaming
It's not clear to me while self-proclaimed leftists spend so much energy convincing people to not support the Democratic Party while never really saying anything about Trump and MAGA.
Not voting is the most ineffective kind of protest
Nooo you don't understand if you speak out against genocide that means you're a fascist! At least if it's one of our guys doing it
/s
I'm waiting for someone to call russian trollbot
You know what isnt a tough choice? Blocking you 🥰
As someone who’s living out of the USA and never visited them, while I know that Bernie Sanders or Michelle Obama would be the best president for America, I kind of want Trump to win because the memes 2016-2020 were amazing.
What’s with these anti-Biden strawmen/nonsense posts?
One, of course Trump and Republicans will continue funding Israel. Two, it’s a false dichotomy/strawman because nobody has said we have to continue funding Israel to prevent Trump from winning. How would that make any sense?
https://lemmy.world/comment/8056906
when you say don't vote for biden as a protest against his funding of genocide, which seems to be the most effective way to move him on it, you get called a trumper and that its your fault for fascism.
What does a protest non-vote accomplish? There's moral satisfaction, of course, but that doesn't stop the genocide. If the goal of the protest non-vote is to ensure Biden loses to teach the Dems a lesson, and it works, Trump becomes president. That's almost certainly just a continuation of the genocide PLUS all the harm Project 2025 promises to deliver. MAYBE the Dems put up a more progressive candidate next time, but surely we could try to get that power between election cycles?
I guess I just don't think protest non-votes will accomplish any of the goals of that protest, but they will allow Trump to live his best fascist dictator life.
I dunno, is there something I'm missing from your strategic calculus here?
All Biden has to do is pick up the phone, say "no more money, no more arms" and he gets everyones vote. People have been protesting this for a LONG time. Longer than since Oct 7th. They don't listen, they have actively silenced and doxxed protestors and even college students. "From the river to the sea, palestine will be free" is not allowed on college campuses. And we are living under so-called democratic president.
So Rashida says vote uncommitted, on a fucking primary, and all of a sudden, lo and behold, we are listened to.
The idea is to get Biden to stop sending all of our money and weapons over there. Painting everyone calling on Biden for a ceasefire as a fool or worse, MAGA, is simply the blue brand of MAGA.
MAGA is also about: hating LGBT, demonizing immigrants, worshiping wealthy people, opposing labor, hating the idea of government and taxes in general, banning abortion, large trucks, packing courts with conservatives, political corruption, and even things like removing the right for women to vote. Pretty sure US Liberals and Democrats haven't stood up for those things at all.
Biden, despite being President, does not get to make every decision himself. It is shameful that he has supported Israel this much so far, after it was clear they were doing far more than simple defense or retaliation, but the vast majority of US politicians have for Israel's entire existence. Acting like Biden can unilaterally solve the problems with the US-Israel political alliance is naive. Acting like Biden's actions were entirely due to some 'uncommitted' votes instantly is also naive.
We can argue that neoliberals like Biden and the current establishment Democrats are hating of the QIA+ part of the LGBTQIA+ community, climate activists, climate refugees, direct action initiatives, grassroots movements, just to name whats off the top of my head. They also have a disdain for poor people but historically yes have made things more accessible, on paper. If you are disabled, queer, non-white, neurodivergent or an intersection of those things, you are second class and that is the lived experience. The way they talk and the way they spend and lobby shows that they also want to push an ableist, classist agenda that only allows certain diversity to a point before it becomes too inconvenient or uncomfortable.
Biden has supported israel since his days in congress. He said that if there was no Israel, the US would create one. Israel has been doing this since day one. 1948 Nakba. He shares the same values as israel. The values of fascism, colonialism, zionism. This is his legacy and we should not let him forget it. https://theconversation.com/biden-says-the-u-s-would-have-to-invent-an-israel-if-it-didnt-exist-why-210172
Kamala Harris told Guatamalans not to try and come to the US. We did a coup there once. The Biden admin now wants to be even tougher on the border than Republicans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57387350 https://news.yahoo.com/biden-may-sign-trump-esque-220052566.html
Okay, so.... your belief is that Biden and the Democrats do no support queer, intersex and asexual individuals? What does that even mean? Climate activists? Okay... refugees? Seems like a combo of issues. "direct action initiatives, grassroots movements" is very vague.
Please consider we are comparing them to Republicans since that's our realistic alternative. Democrats support a social safety net. Republicans fight against EVERY form of social(ist) support with legislation and propaganda. Let's list the states which denied accepting federal funds to expand Medicaid... hmm... and no, it has nothing at all to do with "disabled, queer, non-white, neurodivergent or an intersection of those things" as they specifically help those people. As noted, we are comparing them to fucking republicans. What you're saying makes almost no sense at all. Are you confusing Democrats with Republicans? Do you even live in the US?
Okay, so you ignored half of what I said and are continuing to your primary agenda, Israel. Tell me how Trump being elected will help the Palestinian cause.
Democrats gave a cushy border deal to Republicans knowing they'd refuse it over electoral concerns and guess what, they did. Again: either a Democrat or Republican will be elected for each seat available in the upcoming elections. How will a Republican taking office help migrants?
If Democrats are so supporting of social(ist) programs, why did 106 of them vote YEA in a resolution denouncing socialism and deeming US as capitalist country first and foremost? https://nebraskaexaminer.com/2023/02/02/u-s-house-agrees-on-something-lawmakers-condemn-the-horrors-of-socialism/ https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2023106?Page=2
If democrats care so much about marginialized peoples, why are they not donating to these peoples gofundmes? Or responding to their calls for mutual aid? Because it cuts into the neoliberal commodification and privitization of public assistance.
"This “neo-liberalization of social services” transformed charity into an industry where professionalism, maintaining tax-exempt status, and uplifting the needs of corporate donors and capitalist foundations fueled the work. Now, the nonprofit system encourages social movements to follow capitalist models, is monitored and influenced by state and corporate entities, and is generally focused on employing educated workers to the helping profession rather than mass activist organizing.11 Conversely, mutual aid organizers are attuned to the needs of the collective over any other stakeholder, and the lines between those offering and receiving assistance are blurred."
https://cunyurbanfoodpolicy.org/news/2023/08/22/mutual-aid-101-history-politics-and-organizational-structures-of-community-care/
Democrats are closer in class and ethics to republicans than they are to the working class. They are all friends and colleagues of each other, not sworn mortal enemies like they portray.
Its hard to differentiate Dems from Repubs since they both seem to want the working class to dissolve.
Nobody thinks that.
the link referring to the border issue is talking about biden concocting a trump era border policy in executive order style, so not about the deal he tried to make with repubs. the dems don't want more people crossing the border either.
biden cant unilaterally solve the problems of the the US but he can stop weapons and money going to a genocide.
EDIT: adding citations as to why biden is not that labor friendly:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/02/joe-biden-is-no-friend-of-unions
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/01/joe-biden-rail-strike-labor-unions
The Democratic Party doesn’t fully represent their voters, it’s true. It also seems you didn’t/can’t read the article in your first link. However, I am pragmatic and while I’d love to reform the Democratic Party, the republicans are MUCH WORSE about EVERYTHING.
You’re very good at ranting and criticizing democrats while ignoring 80% of what I respond with.
WOW, really? Well let’s just “both sides!!” it and discourage Biden voters so we can get Danald Tramp elected anyway. After all, 50% of democrats going along with some bullshit vote condemning dictators is just as bad as 100% of republicans doing so, and means they’re indistinguishable.
What the one about the "horrors" of socialism? If there are any horrors of socialism, its that it allowed capitalism to exist. Everything the US condemns "socialist and communist" countries of is usually just a projection of its own bullshit.
I'm not sure which parts i didn't respond to, can you clarify? otherwise stop moving the goalposts
I encourage people to vote for whoever they want. If they can vote uncommitted on a primary to show they dont support him thats amazing and will not risk the election to trump as y'all like to keep screaming
It's not clear to me while self-proclaimed leftists spend so much energy convincing people to not support the Democratic Party while never really saying anything about Trump and MAGA.
Not voting is the most ineffective kind of protest
Nooo you don't understand if you speak out against genocide that means you're a fascist! At least if it's one of our guys doing it
/s
I'm waiting for someone to call russian trollbot
You know what isnt a tough choice? Blocking you 🥰
As someone who’s living out of the USA and never visited them, while I know that Bernie Sanders or Michelle Obama would be the best president for America, I kind of want Trump to win because the memes 2016-2020 were amazing.