China's new national map has set off a wave of protests. Why?
China has upset many countries in the Asia-Pacific region with its release of a new official map that lays claim to most of the South China Sea, as well as to contested parts of India and Russia, and official objections continue to mount. What is the map, and why is it upsetting people so much?
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It seems significant, then, that Beijing chose to release the map on the heels of a late August meeting of the BRICS nations — Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa -- and just before China is to participate in top-level meetings of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations and the Group of 20 rich and developing nations.
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In releasing the map now, Beijing is widely seen as signaling it has no intention of backing down on any of its claims and is making sure that its positions are fresh in the minds of other countries in the region.
Care to provide any examples?
_gestures at the world _ source Another one
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any territories that have been incorporated into the US since WWII. The military interventions and soft power stuff hasn't added any territory.
If you’re okay with military interventions and soft power; surely you’re okay, or at least ambivalent, with China doing the same thing.
It depends entirely on the reason. I am not universally opposed to military intervention. But I think the US has wrongfully intervened before as well. It all depends on whether it's a just war.
It’s in China’s self-interest to expand their financial hegemony and weaken America’s. To them, it is just. American Exceptionalism is a myth. We are no better than any other country, and the readers here need to be reminded.
This guy is definitely a troll, he shows up on a lot of posts to try and deflect any criticism back to America. Im guessing if you check his profile you’ll see what I mean but his name has stood out a couple times now on other threads.
I’m human and American. Not a troll. I just see the world as objectively as I can, not how I want it to be. I live in America, but I don’t let my selfishness cloud the reality that America is the cause of many of the world’s problems. You don’t have to agree with me. That’s fine. I’m just here to elevate the discussion beyond the myth of American Exceptionalism.
You're truly exceptional and everyone else is dumb and biased.
No. I have biases and I’m consistently wrong and corrected. But I do try to temper my predilections and use empathy to see other points of view. Compassion is a virtue. I do think I’m smart, not exceptional though. I enjoy learning and encourage everyone to do the same. There are many people on here that are smarter than me, and I welcome their criticism.
Do you have a moral compass? A set of values you compare other things against? If so, does it apply to your views on foreign policy?
Yes. I am a utilitarian and a consequentialist. I’m concerned for the world, not just America’s interests. So all my foreign policy considerations flow from that.
So the good of humanity is the top interest right? So things that China does that are bad for humanity are bad, right? It seems to me like self interested territorial expansion, possibly with military force, would be pretty bad for humanity on the whole.
Yes. Any nation that subverts the sovereignty of another nation through trade or violence is bad for humanity. But eastern and western media create a false dichotomy that if one is good, the other must be bad. It benefits media financially and the governments agendas. But there are other choices. Unfortunately, the geopolitics of trade dictate conflicts over resources so that the other options are untenable. Idealistically, an international system could determine trade and exchange of resources. Realistically, there is no international body that can enforce nations to isolate. So we war.
Edit: I’m not a geopolitical expert.
I agree both western and eastern countries can and have been in the wrong. I think that's the point your trying to make. And I agree.
Your original comment sounded like you were saying both are okay, or that China's aggression was not bad.
Ok
Self interest is not absolutely just. Morality isn't defined by what the local government says.
For example, the US in Cuba was unjust though it was in their best interest.
Correct. Utilitarianism is contextual and relative.
But even utilitarianism needs an ultimate goal to maximize utility towards. Is that ultimate good the good of humanity, or the good of China or the US?
The good of humanity.
So when China or the US does things in their own best interest that are against humanity we can condemn them both?
Yes. Or Russia, NATO, BRICS. No nation or organization of nations should have a mandate.
Then we agree on that.
Let me put it like this: China is done. Within the next ten years it will go into decline. They have a birth problem (don't they always?) and current estimates are that by 2050 they'll only have 800 million left of the 1.something billion they have now. This will cause a shit tonne of issues coupled with their economy already being a huge bubble at the moment. Japan had (still has) a similar issue.
With that, their economy will fall, their military power will fall, their world influence will fall.
Source?
Try https://youtu.be/KiaukPUV6Hg?si=5_FqDLj2CSB7wxav I haven't finished this one but it talked about similar issues and the author typically makes well researched videos
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/KiaukPUV6Hg?si=5_FqDLj2CSB7wxav
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Thanks. I’ll watch that. This is not isolated to China though. Japan, America, S.Korea are also experiencing birth declines. It’s a concern in the developed world. I think only Africa is experiencing an increase, as they are developing countries.
South Korea indeed has a similar issue, the USA by my knowledge does not.
Multiples, I'll have to look them up. I'll see if I can find a YouTube video that explains it easier.
Try NATO, defense.gov or state.gov.
It's so weird, you claimed that China and America are doing the same thing, someone just tells you why you're wrong, and you just pivot your position around to something different without acknowledging what just happened.
Is your brain okay?
I hope so. Thanks for asking. I was wrong about territorial expansion since WW2. But I meant to reference American Imperialism. We discussed it.
Yes, the Chinese are perfect and never did anything wrong. They never invaded anywhere, never committed atrocities, never waged war...
I didn’t say that. I’m just pointing out they are no different than America.
If you really believe that China is the same as the USA then you're either lying or ignorant.
For all its flaws and horrible fuckups, I'm pretty sure the USA has never organized genocide, for one. China has, and still does.
Torture still is a big discussion at least in the US, and mostly isn't used, whereas in China and other dictatorships it's just an obvious tool to be used.
Try raising your voice in China. Just go outside and say "fuck Winnie the pooh" and see how much America and China differ
Come on, don't be THAT naive.
is this... is this bait? The USA has organized a handful of genocides.
Unfortunately you're right, I guess I should add there "in the last 100 years" or so.
I think it's fair to say that the USA currently or recently hasn't been engaged in genocides
How do you know of life in China? Have you lived there? Your sources are from Western media that has a vested interest in making China the bad guy. Maybe they are. But I’m gonna remain skeptical. You should to.
Not every western media is like in the US where you can just lie your ass off. Some journalists actually are (and are required to be) good and honest and responsible.
Just because the Chinese state censorship buro didn't tell you how you should think, doesn't mean it's not true.
If China tells you how something is, you can pretty much assume it's that what the government wants you to believe, not what is.