I'm fine with a company making their own games exclusive to their own software platform.
I don't like it, but I accept it.
I absolutely hate a company inducing other companies to release only on their software platform.
Seems like monopolistic practices rather than competing on services.
It wasn't even to release on their software platform, it was more explicitly a "non-Steam" release as games were available on PC via both Epic and Microsoft's Store.
Seems like monopolistic practices rather than competing on services.
It literally is? They're literally not competing on services, they're competing via artificial scarcity.
Well, it entirely depends on how you look at things. Sometimes it’s monopolistic, other times it’s actual competition.
With Sony and Xbox, I dislike what Sony does with PS5 exclusives because I don’t think that it convinces people to switch to the PS5. What does do that is the PSVR2 and controller features. The actual features, not exclusives. Games are better on that system, so people can decide to swap.
With PC platforms, I care far far less. In fact, I’d say it’s nearly impossible to compete with the monopoly that is Steam without exclusives. I like steam, but imagine if they change course. PC gaming would be screwed. There is no valid competition.
Epic mostly does timed exclusives (the right thing), they just aren’t giving features which is frustrating. The conversation changes a lot if the platform doesn’t suck. If I like the platform that also has free games and also has new releases for a time, that’s competition and it’s cool with me. But since I like steam and they take games away from the steam monopoly, we call them a monopoly and dislike them.
I absolutely hate a company inducing other companies to release only on their software platform.
On one level I get this, but on another level...the companies themselves agreed to it. Like, everybody gets pissed at Epic for making the offer. Nobody gets pissed at the company that takes it. So weird. It's almost like your favorite game developer only exists to make money and they got offered more money than what they thought they'd make releasing on Steam.
I see lots of people complaining towards the company that takes the deal with Epic. It's just way easier to whine about Epic instead of a specific list of game companies that took the offer for various reasons. Like for indy studios I can totally see why they would take the money instead of risking it while for Ubisoft it's completely down to more profit.
Let's also not conflate "developers" with "companies" Epic will talk about paying developers a better cut but often times it is the publisher not the developer that gets paid. My favorite developers don't get paid by Epic, they get paid whatever they can scrape together from their boss.
Let’s also not conflate “developers” with “companies”
Development companies, like 4A Games are what people are complaining about when they complain about "Developers." This is different from the programmers or individual game developers who work on the game as people. The words might be conflated, but the company is what's being complained about.
Also, it depends on the game. Metro Exodus was subject to what their publisher wanted to do. The developers behind Phoenix Point, however, received additional funding from Epic to finish their game in exchange for a year of exclusivity. It just depends. Regardless, it kinda just...doesn't matter, right? I mean, it's video games. There are people in the United States who can't afford insulin. A video game being exclusively published for a year via the EGS is, like...the least of our societal problems. And I meant that literally.
I think it does matter as I will always encourage a developer to take the money, they gotta get by and I get that but a publisher isn't going to share that Epic money with the workers.
And they will share the Steam money with the workers?
I've heard only good things about how Valve treats their employees. Meanwhile Ubisoft who was one of the biggest to go for Epic's store just had 120 something layoffs.
That's not really what we were talking about, though. And, to get back on topic, Valve doesn't engage in profit sharing with its workers. You can like a company as much as you want. It's still a company and at its foundation it extracts surplus value from its workers. It exists purely to make money. Like any other company. Any positive sentiment towards it that is not purely an evaluation of the quality of its products and services is misguided and largely a product of public relations, rather than any genuine merit of the entity itself.
I would rather the money go to a company that treats employees better regardless if I can have what I ultimately desire.
The point remains Epic lies saying they "help devs" Valve never claims anything.
I would rather the money go to a company that treats employees better
The point remains Epic lies saying they “help devs” Valve never claims anything.
I mean, it's factually true that they offer the game makers and their associated publishers a much better split than what Valve does. Valve takes 30% off of all purchases. Epic takes 12. Some companies actually get 100% of all profits the first 6 months. You can't say Valve offers more. They might have a better storefront and more users, sure, but those aren't merits of the company itself. It's just merits of a monopoly.
And Valve has always tried to claim that it was "part of the community, rather than standing above it." Which is, of course, bullshit. They're not part of any community. They're a storefront. Their entire purpose is to make money off of other people's labor.
Come on, man, be better than "omg good guy Valve!" It's as shitty a company as any. Don't get suckered into thinking anything else.
"Let’s also not conflate “developers” with “companies” Epic will talk about paying developers a better cut but often times it is the publisher not the developer that gets paid."
You're doing it again. I don't know why I got caught up in this whataboutism with you when I made myself clear from the start and you agree. It's like you want me to argue for Valve when I don't care. GoG is best storefront for the end user and it's not even close.
You do understand when it says "developers" it's not talking about individual, human developers that sit at a computer and code levels, and instead means "game development companies," right? Also, it's not a "whataboutism" - it's a direct refutation of your argument. Your argument was specifically about Valve being a "good company." I provided evidence that it's not a good company. That's not a whataboutism. A whatabousim would be somebody criticizing Valve and someone else saying "well, what about Epic?!"
I am talking about people not companies. That's literally what my first comment said and I quoted it. Hence the "whataboutism" Jfc
I was a backer for Phoenix point, i took my money back and never bought the game when it came out. People are equally pissed off at developers who take the deal.
Even more so when they release a game that's not even conceptually on the same level as what they promised, grumble grumble.
I'm fine with a company making their own games exclusive to their own software platform.
I don't like it, but I accept it.
I absolutely hate a company inducing other companies to release only on their software platform. Seems like monopolistic practices rather than competing on services.
It wasn't even to release on their software platform, it was more explicitly a "non-Steam" release as games were available on PC via both Epic and Microsoft's Store.
It literally is? They're literally not competing on services, they're competing via artificial scarcity.
Well, it entirely depends on how you look at things. Sometimes it’s monopolistic, other times it’s actual competition.
With Sony and Xbox, I dislike what Sony does with PS5 exclusives because I don’t think that it convinces people to switch to the PS5. What does do that is the PSVR2 and controller features. The actual features, not exclusives. Games are better on that system, so people can decide to swap.
With PC platforms, I care far far less. In fact, I’d say it’s nearly impossible to compete with the monopoly that is Steam without exclusives. I like steam, but imagine if they change course. PC gaming would be screwed. There is no valid competition.
Epic mostly does timed exclusives (the right thing), they just aren’t giving features which is frustrating. The conversation changes a lot if the platform doesn’t suck. If I like the platform that also has free games and also has new releases for a time, that’s competition and it’s cool with me. But since I like steam and they take games away from the steam monopoly, we call them a monopoly and dislike them.
On one level I get this, but on another level...the companies themselves agreed to it. Like, everybody gets pissed at Epic for making the offer. Nobody gets pissed at the company that takes it. So weird. It's almost like your favorite game developer only exists to make money and they got offered more money than what they thought they'd make releasing on Steam.
I see lots of people complaining towards the company that takes the deal with Epic. It's just way easier to whine about Epic instead of a specific list of game companies that took the offer for various reasons. Like for indy studios I can totally see why they would take the money instead of risking it while for Ubisoft it's completely down to more profit.
Let's also not conflate "developers" with "companies" Epic will talk about paying developers a better cut but often times it is the publisher not the developer that gets paid. My favorite developers don't get paid by Epic, they get paid whatever they can scrape together from their boss.
Development companies, like 4A Games are what people are complaining about when they complain about "Developers." This is different from the programmers or individual game developers who work on the game as people. The words might be conflated, but the company is what's being complained about.
Also, it depends on the game. Metro Exodus was subject to what their publisher wanted to do. The developers behind Phoenix Point, however, received additional funding from Epic to finish their game in exchange for a year of exclusivity. It just depends. Regardless, it kinda just...doesn't matter, right? I mean, it's video games. There are people in the United States who can't afford insulin. A video game being exclusively published for a year via the EGS is, like...the least of our societal problems. And I meant that literally.
I think it does matter as I will always encourage a developer to take the money, they gotta get by and I get that but a publisher isn't going to share that Epic money with the workers.
And they will share the Steam money with the workers?
I've heard only good things about how Valve treats their employees. Meanwhile Ubisoft who was one of the biggest to go for Epic's store just had 120 something layoffs.
That's not really what we were talking about, though. And, to get back on topic, Valve doesn't engage in profit sharing with its workers. You can like a company as much as you want. It's still a company and at its foundation it extracts surplus value from its workers. It exists purely to make money. Like any other company. Any positive sentiment towards it that is not purely an evaluation of the quality of its products and services is misguided and largely a product of public relations, rather than any genuine merit of the entity itself.
I would rather the money go to a company that treats employees better regardless if I can have what I ultimately desire.
The point remains Epic lies saying they "help devs" Valve never claims anything.
Oh, okay, so you mean the company that this guy is talking about where everything was structured like high school cliques?
Or maybe the one in which this transgender employee was referred to by their manager as "it"?
Or maybe you mean the company this former dev talks about where your work space is basically structured so that management can watch your every action at all times?
I mean, it's factually true that they offer the game makers and their associated publishers a much better split than what Valve does. Valve takes 30% off of all purchases. Epic takes 12. Some companies actually get 100% of all profits the first 6 months. You can't say Valve offers more. They might have a better storefront and more users, sure, but those aren't merits of the company itself. It's just merits of a monopoly.
And Valve has always tried to claim that it was "part of the community, rather than standing above it." Which is, of course, bullshit. They're not part of any community. They're a storefront. Their entire purpose is to make money off of other people's labor.
Come on, man, be better than "omg good guy Valve!" It's as shitty a company as any. Don't get suckered into thinking anything else.
"Let’s also not conflate “developers” with “companies” Epic will talk about paying developers a better cut but often times it is the publisher not the developer that gets paid."
You're doing it again. I don't know why I got caught up in this whataboutism with you when I made myself clear from the start and you agree. It's like you want me to argue for Valve when I don't care. GoG is best storefront for the end user and it's not even close.
You do understand when it says "developers" it's not talking about individual, human developers that sit at a computer and code levels, and instead means "game development companies," right? Also, it's not a "whataboutism" - it's a direct refutation of your argument. Your argument was specifically about Valve being a "good company." I provided evidence that it's not a good company. That's not a whataboutism. A whatabousim would be somebody criticizing Valve and someone else saying "well, what about Epic?!"
I am talking about people not companies. That's literally what my first comment said and I quoted it. Hence the "whataboutism" Jfc
I was a backer for Phoenix point, i took my money back and never bought the game when it came out. People are equally pissed off at developers who take the deal.
Even more so when they release a game that's not even conceptually on the same level as what they promised, grumble grumble.