There was a super interesting situation when the first Malaysian cosmonaut went to the ISS. He wasn't the first Muslim in space, but he was apparently the first to ask for guidance about things like how to correctly conduct his daily prayers and how to observe Ramadan's fasting. The council he spoke to made a booklet called A Guideline of Performing Ibadah at the International Space Station (ISS), which includes the delightful checklist for how to orient yourself for daily prayers: towards the kaaba if you can, if not then the kaaba's projection, if not that then just the Earth in general, and if even that isn't practical then wherever.
If you don't know the direction of the Kaaba', then you try approximating. if you can't, then pray facing any direction. I don't know where the other ones come from, but this is not coming from the council, but a hadeeth.
The rules I listed there are what's in that booklet I mentioned for the specific case of being aboard the ISS, I'm not saying that they're general guidance for all Muslims. I don't know if there's a more appropriate word than "council" for the group of people that put it together for the Angkasawan program, though
The guidance in that booklet was based off the scriptures, so you're both right 👍
I am not saying that the rules are wrong, just that most of them are from a hadeeth. So the council could've just used that instead of making the booklet, but it's still interesting that they did.
Would that rule apply here though, because the Cosmonaut does have knowledge about where Kaaba' is. The problem would be that with the speeds in question the Kaaba' doesn't (relative to the Cosmonaut) stay there very long.
All that matters is their intention to face the Kaaba, not whether or not they actually do so
which includes the delightful checklist for how to orient yourself for daily prayers: towards the kaaba if you can, if not then the kaaba’s projection
In Low Earth Orbit (LEO) where the ISS orbits, its only about 200 miles straight up. It also makes a complete orbit of the Earth every 90 minutes with the Earth rotating underneath it to produce a zig zag pattern to an observer on a flat plane.
Because the ISS and the Earth are moving so fast, that would mean if you were oriented properly facing Kaaba when you started your prayer, pretty quickly during your prayer you're not going to be facing it anymore. Is the prayer still proper as long as it starts when you're facing Kaaba? Do you have to reorient yourself at the beginning of the next prayer?
I suppose with only the friction of air in the ISS against your body and you waited until the ISS was at apogee or perigee you could get one of your fellow Astronauts/Cosmonauts to orient you and impart a very slow rotation on your body matching the half the orbital period while being pointed to Kaaba's (projection into space). That would buy you 45 minutes at the most assuming you're at apogee or perigee. Hmm, there would also have to be a few orbits this wouldn't work where Kaaba would be "east" relative to the Astronaut at apogee, but transits Kaaba during the orbit causing Kaaba to then be behind the Astronaut or now "west".
Its a fascinating problem!
Such precision isn't required by the religion, but it is an interesting problem. Facing Mecca for prayers from anywhere in the world and determining prayer timings were scientific problems that drove early Muslims make advancements in astronomy, cartography, etc.
God we're a weird fucking species aren't we?
I'm showing my bias, I hope not to offend: how does someone understanding/expert in enough math and science to become an astronaut still believe that the magic sky man cares what direction he bows in during prayer or when he eats? If it's cultural significance I can understand that, but otherwise I just can't comprehend how you can have such a dissonance between empiric study/career and fundamentalist religious belief
>trying not to offend
>"magic sky man"
You could at least avoid phrases that are overtly used to insult the belief. "How can someone who applies scientific thinking so broadly still have religious beliefs that contradict scientific observations?"
Is it anything other than a magic sky man?
No, but I also don't mind if I offend any religious people with this comment. If I was trying to avoid that, I wouldn't belittle their beliefs
Human beings are sentimental creatures. Faith often conflicts with logic. As a person who doesn't believe in any sky daddy, I find it kind of inspiring that someone who's smart enough in math and science could still believe in their religion.
Math and science don't prove or disprove God. Some faiths conflict with logic but not all.
As "a person who doesn't believe in any sky daddy" I don't understand why you would find inspiration in something directly contradictory to your own purported views
Just because they don't personally feel a way doesn't mean they can't appreciate those who do. I personally don't want to study physics, but I can find Feynman's pursuit of it inspiring. I don't personally have the BFF relationship with my mom, but I find it great that some people do. Etc etc.
Many scientists are still religious. They find their god(s) in the gaps that science can’t explain yet. How the universe was created, how life first started, why the universal constants are set up the way they are. There’s a lot of things that science hasn’t explained yet where one can look for a god.
Signed, a stone cold atheist. But I still respect that some people want a little more out of their life. As long as it’s not hurting anyone, I don’t really care what they choose to believe or do with their time.
There was a super interesting situation when the first Malaysian cosmonaut went to the ISS. He wasn't the first Muslim in space, but he was apparently the first to ask for guidance about things like how to correctly conduct his daily prayers and how to observe Ramadan's fasting. The council he spoke to made a booklet called A Guideline of Performing Ibadah at the International Space Station (ISS), which includes the delightful checklist for how to orient yourself for daily prayers: towards the kaaba if you can, if not then the kaaba's projection, if not that then just the Earth in general, and if even that isn't practical then wherever.
If you don't know the direction of the Kaaba', then you try approximating. if you can't, then pray facing any direction. I don't know where the other ones come from, but this is not coming from the council, but a hadeeth.
The rules I listed there are what's in that booklet I mentioned for the specific case of being aboard the ISS, I'm not saying that they're general guidance for all Muslims. I don't know if there's a more appropriate word than "council" for the group of people that put it together for the Angkasawan program, though
The guidance in that booklet was based off the scriptures, so you're both right 👍
I am not saying that the rules are wrong, just that most of them are from a hadeeth. So the council could've just used that instead of making the booklet, but it's still interesting that they did.
Would that rule apply here though, because the Cosmonaut does have knowledge about where Kaaba' is. The problem would be that with the speeds in question the Kaaba' doesn't (relative to the Cosmonaut) stay there very long.
All that matters is their intention to face the Kaaba, not whether or not they actually do so
In Low Earth Orbit (LEO) where the ISS orbits, its only about 200 miles straight up. It also makes a complete orbit of the Earth every 90 minutes with the Earth rotating underneath it to produce a zig zag pattern to an observer on a flat plane.
Because the ISS and the Earth are moving so fast, that would mean if you were oriented properly facing Kaaba when you started your prayer, pretty quickly during your prayer you're not going to be facing it anymore. Is the prayer still proper as long as it starts when you're facing Kaaba? Do you have to reorient yourself at the beginning of the next prayer?
I suppose with only the friction of air in the ISS against your body and you waited until the ISS was at apogee or perigee you could get one of your fellow Astronauts/Cosmonauts to orient you and impart a very slow rotation on your body matching the half the orbital period while being pointed to Kaaba's (projection into space). That would buy you 45 minutes at the most assuming you're at apogee or perigee. Hmm, there would also have to be a few orbits this wouldn't work where Kaaba would be "east" relative to the Astronaut at apogee, but transits Kaaba during the orbit causing Kaaba to then be behind the Astronaut or now "west".
Its a fascinating problem!
Such precision isn't required by the religion, but it is an interesting problem. Facing Mecca for prayers from anywhere in the world and determining prayer timings were scientific problems that drove early Muslims make advancements in astronomy, cartography, etc.
God we're a weird fucking species aren't we?
I'm showing my bias, I hope not to offend: how does someone understanding/expert in enough math and science to become an astronaut still believe that the magic sky man cares what direction he bows in during prayer or when he eats? If it's cultural significance I can understand that, but otherwise I just can't comprehend how you can have such a dissonance between empiric study/career and fundamentalist religious belief
>trying not to offend
>"magic sky man"
You could at least avoid phrases that are overtly used to insult the belief. "How can someone who applies scientific thinking so broadly still have religious beliefs that contradict scientific observations?"
Is it anything other than a magic sky man?
No, but I also don't mind if I offend any religious people with this comment. If I was trying to avoid that, I wouldn't belittle their beliefs
Human beings are sentimental creatures. Faith often conflicts with logic. As a person who doesn't believe in any sky daddy, I find it kind of inspiring that someone who's smart enough in math and science could still believe in their religion.
Math and science don't prove or disprove God. Some faiths conflict with logic but not all.
As "a person who doesn't believe in any sky daddy" I don't understand why you would find inspiration in something directly contradictory to your own purported views
Just because they don't personally feel a way doesn't mean they can't appreciate those who do. I personally don't want to study physics, but I can find Feynman's pursuit of it inspiring. I don't personally have the BFF relationship with my mom, but I find it great that some people do. Etc etc.
Many scientists are still religious. They find their god(s) in the gaps that science can’t explain yet. How the universe was created, how life first started, why the universal constants are set up the way they are. There’s a lot of things that science hasn’t explained yet where one can look for a god.
Signed, a stone cold atheist. But I still respect that some people want a little more out of their life. As long as it’s not hurting anyone, I don’t really care what they choose to believe or do with their time.