I love the ticket systems in places like Berlin, Helsinki, Heidelberg, and Tampere. They don't use turnstiles at all, just occasional onboard ticket checkers.
It's so much faster for large groups of people to move through the stations so it keeps people moving instead of piling up at a ticket machine, even ones as fast as those in London.
You don't need officers standing guard at turnstiles, just extra onboard sweeps to keep most people honest.
Even better is a whole free system like some cities are going to. LA is having a freeway widening project happening. If the money for that went to their public transit system, they could make it fare free for 20 years at the same price point as "just one more lane, bro" of freeway that will still be a parking lot anyway.
I know someone that grew up in LA. Their childhood home was demolished and turned into an extra lane for the freeway.
Same in Oslo. No turnstiles, you are just expected to have a valid ticket, (mainly digital) within the zone. And you can get checked at any time
Other than London, is there any European city with turnstiles? I've been traveling extensively and never noticed any.
Lisbon has them, and I believe so does Porto (the only two portuguese cities with subway)
Stockholms has automatic gates that open once your ticket gets scanned. So basically the same function?
Paris for the metro/rer.
The big lines/intercity often have no one checking at the entrance, but do fairly regular ticket checks once on board.
The Netherlands recently switched to turnstyles.
Stockholm at least has them.
What do they do if you are caught without a ticket?
You get IDd and a fine.
You can either pay it there or get it mailed, but then it's like 20% more expensive
Another star for Norway. If I could get family issues disentangled, I'd be applying for jobs there in a heartbeat.
Most of Sweden does it that way too
I wish the UK would go to the German system. Particularly the 50EUR/m unlimited slow train travel, that's goddamned amazing.
I'd consider getting rid of my car if we had that here.
A better reason to make all these free is that they are largely funded by taxes in the first place.
Save money by getting rid of the ticket infrastructure and enforcement and encourage use.
The problem with this approach is that the NYC subway cars in Manhattan and the surrounding areas are usually packed like to the point where you can't even move. Also, so many people get on and off so quickly that it would be difficult to keep track of people.
Berliner here. That's not better at all. It makes it much easier to forget to validate the ticket, and the people who control are usually assholes.
IDK about that, have you ever been handcuffed and arrested by an armed uniformed police officer because you didn't spend $3? Lots of people in NYC have. The transit system in Berlin sounds similar to the one we have where I live (not NYC). Here, you can get a fine (a couple hundred dollars iirc) and kicked off the train, but that's it. Not pleasant, certainly enough to keep me honest, but a damn sight better than having a police record and maybe getting shot by a cop.
Dunno how it works there, as I've never used public transport there, but here in Tampere we have ticket readers right next to tram doors and everyone taps their card / mobile on those to activate the ticket. Not easy to forget at all. Same in local trains.
The thing I hated about the Munich system was having to validate your ticket. My girlfriend and her friends got harassed and threatened by a cop because they didn't know they had to validate the tickets they bought.
That's a job requirement.
London can take tens of minutes to get a ticket in peak times. Not a problem for most commuters, but for tourists and random travellers it sucks
Why would you get a ticket for the tube/bus/overground? You can now pay with any contactless card or apple/android pay.
The tube is fine, it's the inter city rail that sucks
Can’t argue there, but I do recommend a train ticket app for e-tickets
This guy Finlands. Two of those cities are the same country haha. Toriiii 🇫🇮
LA does have turnstile-free trains though.
Nice! I haven't had the opportunity to visit their system yet.
I was right near a station when I lived in North Hollywood, so we took the train constantly. I wish there was a train to the beach when I lived in L.A. because that was one of the big letdowns about the train system, but there is now! I don't remember how much a ticket cost, but it was pretty affordable.
Even better is a whole free system like some cities are going to. LA is having a freeway widening project happening. If the money for that went to their public transit system, they could make it fare free for 20 years at the same price point as “just one more lane, bro” of freeway that will still be a parking lot anyway.
Some local community cities even subsidize the monthly fees for the Metrolink trains.
And once the Metrolink trains get to downtown LA's Union Station you take the subway to different areas (yes, LA does have a subway system as well).
That's all great. I have been hearing about the LA transit build out for a while and I'm excited to see more investment for the region. It's one of the largest metro regions in the world and deserves to have one of the best public transit systems to go with that.
If they could just get that Vegas high speed rail line to actually reach into downtown instead of stopping 40 miles out, it would be a serious upgrade to the Intercity efforts.
If they could just get that Vegas high speed rail line to actually reach into downtown instead of stopping 40 miles out, it would be a serious upgrade to the Intercity efforts.
Well, people don't commute from Los Angeles to Las Vegas to work daily, which is what I understand this conversation is about, commuters paying their fares (or not).
Having said that, I totally agree with you.
You'd think that'd be a no-brainer, but I'm sure there's probably legal reasons for it, or fighting the legal reasons so it's costs reasons.
Maybe it's just they don't want to have the regional airports lose money from the lost fares to Vegas. /shrug
It's going to be about cost of construction. You can build a lot of miles across the desert for the same price as a mile in the city. Getting all the way into the core of one of these expensive real estate markets in the world can't be cheap. I hope they manage to make it happen at some point, though.
I can also assume the regional airports are also not overly pleased with the HSR build out too, but reducing car trips and plane flights is basically the core goal of the train.
People in LA don't want a free system. Unfortunately we have a lot of problems that free covid fares exacerbated.
People in LA don’t want a free system.
-snort-
They must not be human. /s
Unfortunately we have a lot of problems that free covid fares exacerbated.
Commuting issues have been a problem in LA for decades before Covid existed. The Metrolink/subway system has existed since before Covid.
I don't know what any of these responses is supposed to mean.
Since they ended the Covid free fare policy, the metro has been much much nicer and ridership has gone up as a result.
Since they ended the Covid free fare policy, the metro has been much much nicer and ridership has gone up as a result.
Could you elaborate on what the Covid-era problems were?
Metro was plagued with safety issues, open drug use and overdoses and deaths, and cars becoming permanent homeless housing.
I live in LA car free, and ridership has been rising a lot lately.
I love the ticket systems in places like Berlin, Helsinki, Heidelberg, and Tampere. They don't use turnstiles at all, just occasional onboard ticket checkers.
It's so much faster for large groups of people to move through the stations so it keeps people moving instead of piling up at a ticket machine, even ones as fast as those in London.
You don't need officers standing guard at turnstiles, just extra onboard sweeps to keep most people honest.
Even better is a whole free system like some cities are going to. LA is having a freeway widening project happening. If the money for that went to their public transit system, they could make it fare free for 20 years at the same price point as "just one more lane, bro" of freeway that will still be a parking lot anyway.
I know someone that grew up in LA. Their childhood home was demolished and turned into an extra lane for the freeway.
Same in Oslo. No turnstiles, you are just expected to have a valid ticket, (mainly digital) within the zone. And you can get checked at any time
Other than London, is there any European city with turnstiles? I've been traveling extensively and never noticed any.
Lisbon has them, and I believe so does Porto (the only two portuguese cities with subway)
Stockholms has automatic gates that open once your ticket gets scanned. So basically the same function?
Paris for the metro/rer.
The big lines/intercity often have no one checking at the entrance, but do fairly regular ticket checks once on board.
The Netherlands recently switched to turnstyles.
Stockholm at least has them.
What do they do if you are caught without a ticket?
You get IDd and a fine.
You can either pay it there or get it mailed, but then it's like 20% more expensive
Another star for Norway. If I could get family issues disentangled, I'd be applying for jobs there in a heartbeat.
Most of Sweden does it that way too
I wish the UK would go to the German system. Particularly the 50EUR/m unlimited slow train travel, that's goddamned amazing.
I'd consider getting rid of my car if we had that here.
A better reason to make all these free is that they are largely funded by taxes in the first place.
71% for the MTA in NY.
https://cbcny.org/research/how-much-do-city-taxpayers-really-contribute-mta
Save money by getting rid of the ticket infrastructure and enforcement and encourage use.
The problem with this approach is that the NYC subway cars in Manhattan and the surrounding areas are usually packed like to the point where you can't even move. Also, so many people get on and off so quickly that it would be difficult to keep track of people.
Berliner here. That's not better at all. It makes it much easier to forget to validate the ticket, and the people who control are usually assholes.
IDK about that, have you ever been handcuffed and arrested by an armed uniformed police officer because you didn't spend $3? Lots of people in NYC have. The transit system in Berlin sounds similar to the one we have where I live (not NYC). Here, you can get a fine (a couple hundred dollars iirc) and kicked off the train, but that's it. Not pleasant, certainly enough to keep me honest, but a damn sight better than having a police record and maybe getting shot by a cop.
Dunno how it works there, as I've never used public transport there, but here in Tampere we have ticket readers right next to tram doors and everyone taps their card / mobile on those to activate the ticket. Not easy to forget at all. Same in local trains.
The thing I hated about the Munich system was having to validate your ticket. My girlfriend and her friends got harassed and threatened by a cop because they didn't know they had to validate the tickets they bought.
That's a job requirement.
London can take tens of minutes to get a ticket in peak times. Not a problem for most commuters, but for tourists and random travellers it sucks
Why would you get a ticket for the tube/bus/overground? You can now pay with any contactless card or apple/android pay.
The tube is fine, it's the inter city rail that sucks
Can’t argue there, but I do recommend a train ticket app for e-tickets
This guy Finlands. Two of those cities are the same country haha. Toriiii 🇫🇮
LA does have turnstile-free trains though.
Nice! I haven't had the opportunity to visit their system yet.
I was right near a station when I lived in North Hollywood, so we took the train constantly. I wish there was a train to the beach when I lived in L.A. because that was one of the big letdowns about the train system, but there is now! I don't remember how much a ticket cost, but it was pretty affordable.
Actually the Metrolink trains that run to/from LA to/from the other nearby counties/suburban areas all work the same way, no turnstiles, just conductors checking for tickets on them.
Some local community cities even subsidize the monthly fees for the Metrolink trains.
And once the Metrolink trains get to downtown LA's Union Station you take the subway to different areas (yes, LA does have a subway system as well).
That's all great. I have been hearing about the LA transit build out for a while and I'm excited to see more investment for the region. It's one of the largest metro regions in the world and deserves to have one of the best public transit systems to go with that.
If they could just get that Vegas high speed rail line to actually reach into downtown instead of stopping 40 miles out, it would be a serious upgrade to the Intercity efforts.
Well, people don't commute from Los Angeles to Las Vegas to work daily, which is what I understand this conversation is about, commuters paying their fares (or not).
Having said that, I totally agree with you.
You'd think that'd be a no-brainer, but I'm sure there's probably legal reasons for it, or fighting the legal reasons so it's costs reasons.
Maybe it's just they don't want to have the regional airports lose money from the lost fares to Vegas. /shrug
It's going to be about cost of construction. You can build a lot of miles across the desert for the same price as a mile in the city. Getting all the way into the core of one of these expensive real estate markets in the world can't be cheap. I hope they manage to make it happen at some point, though.
I can also assume the regional airports are also not overly pleased with the HSR build out too, but reducing car trips and plane flights is basically the core goal of the train.
People in LA don't want a free system. Unfortunately we have a lot of problems that free covid fares exacerbated.
-snort-
They must not be human. /s
Commuting issues have been a problem in LA for decades before Covid existed. The Metrolink/subway system has existed since before Covid.
I don't know what any of these responses is supposed to mean.
Since they ended the Covid free fare policy, the metro has been much much nicer and ridership has gone up as a result.
Could you elaborate on what the Covid-era problems were?
Metro was plagued with safety issues, open drug use and overdoses and deaths, and cars becoming permanent homeless housing.
I live in LA car free, and ridership has been rising a lot lately.