Are you talking about the current war, or do you mean that they were there before Russia took Crimea in 2014?
If you mean they were there after 2014, what does that matter, it was still stolen land at that time.
If they were there before 2014, I would agree that some form of a path towards citizenship should be made, but again that is Ukraine's prerogative.
Edit: Reading your second article, that is exactly what Ukraine is proposing, expelling Russians who moved to annexed land after 2014. What about that seems unreasonable? They took a gamble and moved to a conflicted territory, maybe they were led to believe it was their right, but it doesn't change the reality that it wasn't.
About those who where there pre 2014.
They took up Russian citizenship.
Now they count as collaborators and traitors.
If you for example are policemen, doctor or have anything to do with the goverment, under Russian occupation you go to prison, as a traitor.
That does seem like a troubling situation. I do imagine that there are likely quite a few people who took those positions with good intentions, but when the new ruler comes to town and asks who wants power, it does seem obvious that there are strings attached. In this case, the deal was indeed to become a traitor in exchange for power/position, but I'm sure many were signing up just to survive.
You're right, there are probably good people that are going to be harmed alongside the bad, and I don't think there is a perfect solution. I would say it needs to get talked about as we get closer to a peace deal, it's truly regrettable that Russia decided to create this problem, maybe they could also work towards a solution for these citizens they forced into this role.
Edit: purely hypothetical, but one thought comes to mind. A compromise might be acceptable if they were given the choice to either retain their Ukrainian citizenship, but lose their position, or to defect to Russia. Though, once again this realm of decision making lies entirely in the hands of the victor of the war.
If people supporting the Russian occupation don't want to get detained by Ukraine, they can leave for Russia before Ukraine frees that territory.
Also, what would you describe people as that help an occupier annex your territory and build up the occupiers control over it, if not collaborateurs?
If they truly wanted to only help their people, they can argue that in court. Because as a country striving to become a fully fledged democracy, they will get a chance to defend themselves in Ukraine, as opposed to getting thrown out of windows, like in Russia.
I kind of have the same sentiment, but I have reservations about what is likely a very small fraction of them.
Mostly the thought of the doctors who are entwined with government, because I'm sure some doctors just want to help. Other than that, I'm sure there's at least one individual who did it as a way to get or maintain a job so they can make rent and survive, but that just might be me projecting my American fear of poverty onto a situation that doesn't apply.
Are doctors ever considered collaborateurs? If they rat out soldiers, sure, but I haven't heard Ukraine trying doctors for doing their job. If anything, they are lauded for continuing their job, like the operators at Chernobyl were, when they worked under Russian occupation.
I would hope not, though I know we're working off of incomplete information since we're not on the ground/in their shoes. It's certainly an appropriate fear to have, but it also cannot and should not stop the reversal of the annexation.
I'm of the mind of asking the Ukrainian government for leniency or due process once the dust settles and the rightful government takes back Crimea.
The other guy... It seems like he is making whatever excuse to suck off Putin that he can 🤣
Are you talking about the current war, or do you mean that they were there before Russia took Crimea in 2014?
If you mean they were there after 2014, what does that matter, it was still stolen land at that time.
If they were there before 2014, I would agree that some form of a path towards citizenship should be made, but again that is Ukraine's prerogative.
Edit: Reading your second article, that is exactly what Ukraine is proposing, expelling Russians who moved to annexed land after 2014. What about that seems unreasonable? They took a gamble and moved to a conflicted territory, maybe they were led to believe it was their right, but it doesn't change the reality that it wasn't.
About those who where there pre 2014. They took up Russian citizenship. Now they count as collaborators and traitors. If you for example are policemen, doctor or have anything to do with the goverment, under Russian occupation you go to prison, as a traitor.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/08/europe/ukraine-hunt-for-collaborators-intl/index.html
That does seem like a troubling situation. I do imagine that there are likely quite a few people who took those positions with good intentions, but when the new ruler comes to town and asks who wants power, it does seem obvious that there are strings attached. In this case, the deal was indeed to become a traitor in exchange for power/position, but I'm sure many were signing up just to survive.
You're right, there are probably good people that are going to be harmed alongside the bad, and I don't think there is a perfect solution. I would say it needs to get talked about as we get closer to a peace deal, it's truly regrettable that Russia decided to create this problem, maybe they could also work towards a solution for these citizens they forced into this role.
Edit: purely hypothetical, but one thought comes to mind. A compromise might be acceptable if they were given the choice to either retain their Ukrainian citizenship, but lose their position, or to defect to Russia. Though, once again this realm of decision making lies entirely in the hands of the victor of the war.
If people supporting the Russian occupation don't want to get detained by Ukraine, they can leave for Russia before Ukraine frees that territory.
Like the two brothers this article is about.
Also, what would you describe people as that help an occupier annex your territory and build up the occupiers control over it, if not collaborateurs?
If they truly wanted to only help their people, they can argue that in court. Because as a country striving to become a fully fledged democracy, they will get a chance to defend themselves in Ukraine, as opposed to getting thrown out of windows, like in Russia.
I kind of have the same sentiment, but I have reservations about what is likely a very small fraction of them.
Mostly the thought of the doctors who are entwined with government, because I'm sure some doctors just want to help. Other than that, I'm sure there's at least one individual who did it as a way to get or maintain a job so they can make rent and survive, but that just might be me projecting my American fear of poverty onto a situation that doesn't apply.
Are doctors ever considered collaborateurs? If they rat out soldiers, sure, but I haven't heard Ukraine trying doctors for doing their job. If anything, they are lauded for continuing their job, like the operators at Chernobyl were, when they worked under Russian occupation.
I would hope not, though I know we're working off of incomplete information since we're not on the ground/in their shoes. It's certainly an appropriate fear to have, but it also cannot and should not stop the reversal of the annexation.
I'm of the mind of asking the Ukrainian government for leniency or due process once the dust settles and the rightful government takes back Crimea.
The other guy... It seems like he is making whatever excuse to suck off Putin that he can 🤣