Is it fair for the servers not to be paid by their employers?
I'm at a loss mate. I'm having these conversations here on lemmy about us-unique problems that have pretty straightforward solutions (and note that I am not saying easy, but pretty obvious how there is one way to fix them, and pretty much one way only). All I hear back is weird stuff, of course it's not fair to be paid different by locals than non locals but how did we even get down this rabbit hole? Everyone here seems to agree that tipping is stupid, that servers should unionise or at least ask for better treatment. Wtf, did Rosa Parker spend time arguing about how black people in some state had it worse than other states?
The same seems to happen when discussing about gun control. Not easy, what worked in other countries like Australia wouldn't work here. But we need guns to defend ourselves from gun nuts. What about trans women that need to defend themselves (a real convo I had with someone, probably still in my comments history).
You know what? In other countries waiters are paid minimum wages, we barely suffer from tips issues, have universal healthcare, guns are pretty hard to obtain, mass shooting are a once in a century issue, our kids don't do drills at school or have to go through metal detectors, white collar jobs have paid sick leave on top of 20-35 holidays days a year and if you need to fight nazis you can hit them with a reo bar.
I'm not bragging, it's sad to see how bad the US has it and even when discussing with people that agree in general with you (you seem to be in favour of unions etc) there's always an obstacle or something that "non Americans don't understand", as i said in other comments you can wait for politicians or your employer to give you more rights or money but that rarely (never?) works.
No, of course it's not fair. That's exactly why I tip. Because it's not fair for them and they need help.
I can't change that for them. They probably can't even change it.
That's just not how America works unfortunately. America is totally beholden to corporate interests.
Also, saying "they do it in other countries" as if that means it's possible in the U.S. when other countries have totally different laws is silly. Australia was able to get rid of guns because they don't have guns enshrined in their founding document.
Wrong Australia was able to get rid of guns because everyone was shocked about what happened with a mass shooting, had the right to bear firearms been enshrined in the constitution there would have been a discussion about making a change to it, hasn't the American constitution ever been amended?
Any more reasons why changes can't happen there? You guys fucking overcame slavery and black people managed to get equal rights (I am sure a few naysayers in the sixties were sceptical about that). Give yourselves more credit
Yes. The American Constitution has been Amended. It takes a 2/3 majority of congress and ratification by three-fourths of the states.
Which is why amendments are almost never passed.
Again, you really don't understand how laws work here.
The 27th Amendment, the most recent one to be passed, was about congressional salaries. It had been proposed in 1791. It passed in 1992.
And you think we could realistically get guns out of the U.S. Constitution?
You are right, maybe it's impossible to solve any problems, we should stop bothering. If only someone had told Rosa back then she probably wouldn't have wasted her time for nothing :)
When did I say it was impossible? It's happened 27 times. I said it's not something realistic, at least not at the moment.
Also, what does Rosa Parks have to do with amending the constitution? She wasn't in the U.S. government and there were no constitutional amendments based on her heroism. If you're going to reference U.S. history, it's best not to do it wrongly.
Mentioned her before in this thread,before we went down another rabbit hole of impossible / not realistic to change tour constitution. Wasn't my intention to discuss constitution amendments, we ended up there after I pointed out that discussions about tipping (and universal healthcare, gun control etc etc) always end up in someone bringing up some reasons why bUT that workeD everywhere eLSe oN thE PlaNet but It Can't worK Here becAuse blah blah.
I mentioned her not in relation to constitution amendments nor gun control (nor tipping, which ia where we started) just because she didn't make up excuses about, too hard, unrealistic all the other blah blah I keep hearing here about all the issues the US have
If you didn't want to discuss constitutional amendments, you shouldn't have brought up something that would require such a herculean effort to make happen that it is not realistic for the foreseeable future and likely wouldn't even get ratified for decades even if somehow you could get that many Republicans and Democrats on board as your example.
Don't be sorry, its all good I'll go to sleep knowing that it's pretty unlikely I'll get shot when out shopping, and if it happens my hospital fees are free. And while away from work, my employer keeps paying my wages because I'm on sick leave, which doesn't impact my holidays balance because PTO and sick leave are separate.
Unfortunately what worked everywhere else in the Western world for a vast amount of issues clearly can't work in the US because reasons. OK.
Sorry... did you think I was defending America? Because I think it's pretty clear I wasn't.
Most of the rest of the Western world is not an oligarchy designed to maximize profits for a tiny handful of people. That is the "because reasons." This is like asking why North Koreans haven't risen up and deposed the Kim family yet. The real world doesn't work that way.
I know you weren't, which is even more frustraring because we want the same things and the only reason I'm engaging :)
Most of the rest of the western countries absolutely are oligarchies designed to maximise profits for a handful of people, some more than others, sometimes a good government happens for a cycle or two and then bad ones for a while. Doesn't mean people can't demand change and sometimes, not always, obtain it.
Many of us have been demanding change for a very long time now. I certainly have. But the people in charge don't want change. I still march for change, but I can't make it happen.
So perhaps consider changing your approach to something that actually might accomplish something? Instead of just asking nicely over and over without results?
Is it fair for the servers not to be paid by their employers?
I'm at a loss mate. I'm having these conversations here on lemmy about us-unique problems that have pretty straightforward solutions (and note that I am not saying easy, but pretty obvious how there is one way to fix them, and pretty much one way only). All I hear back is weird stuff, of course it's not fair to be paid different by locals than non locals but how did we even get down this rabbit hole? Everyone here seems to agree that tipping is stupid, that servers should unionise or at least ask for better treatment. Wtf, did Rosa Parker spend time arguing about how black people in some state had it worse than other states?
The same seems to happen when discussing about gun control. Not easy, what worked in other countries like Australia wouldn't work here. But we need guns to defend ourselves from gun nuts. What about trans women that need to defend themselves (a real convo I had with someone, probably still in my comments history).
You know what? In other countries waiters are paid minimum wages, we barely suffer from tips issues, have universal healthcare, guns are pretty hard to obtain, mass shooting are a once in a century issue, our kids don't do drills at school or have to go through metal detectors, white collar jobs have paid sick leave on top of 20-35 holidays days a year and if you need to fight nazis you can hit them with a reo bar. I'm not bragging, it's sad to see how bad the US has it and even when discussing with people that agree in general with you (you seem to be in favour of unions etc) there's always an obstacle or something that "non Americans don't understand", as i said in other comments you can wait for politicians or your employer to give you more rights or money but that rarely (never?) works.
No, of course it's not fair. That's exactly why I tip. Because it's not fair for them and they need help.
I can't change that for them. They probably can't even change it.
That's just not how America works unfortunately. America is totally beholden to corporate interests.
Also, saying "they do it in other countries" as if that means it's possible in the U.S. when other countries have totally different laws is silly. Australia was able to get rid of guns because they don't have guns enshrined in their founding document.
Wrong Australia was able to get rid of guns because everyone was shocked about what happened with a mass shooting, had the right to bear firearms been enshrined in the constitution there would have been a discussion about making a change to it, hasn't the American constitution ever been amended? Any more reasons why changes can't happen there? You guys fucking overcame slavery and black people managed to get equal rights (I am sure a few naysayers in the sixties were sceptical about that). Give yourselves more credit
Yes. The American Constitution has been Amended. It takes a 2/3 majority of congress and ratification by three-fourths of the states.
Which is why amendments are almost never passed.
Again, you really don't understand how laws work here.
The 27th Amendment, the most recent one to be passed, was about congressional salaries. It had been proposed in 1791. It passed in 1992.
And you think we could realistically get guns out of the U.S. Constitution?
You are right, maybe it's impossible to solve any problems, we should stop bothering. If only someone had told Rosa back then she probably wouldn't have wasted her time for nothing :)
When did I say it was impossible? It's happened 27 times. I said it's not something realistic, at least not at the moment.
Also, what does Rosa Parks have to do with amending the constitution? She wasn't in the U.S. government and there were no constitutional amendments based on her heroism. If you're going to reference U.S. history, it's best not to do it wrongly.
Mentioned her before in this thread,before we went down another rabbit hole of impossible / not realistic to change tour constitution. Wasn't my intention to discuss constitution amendments, we ended up there after I pointed out that discussions about tipping (and universal healthcare, gun control etc etc) always end up in someone bringing up some reasons why bUT that workeD everywhere eLSe oN thE PlaNet but It Can't worK Here becAuse blah blah.
I mentioned her not in relation to constitution amendments nor gun control (nor tipping, which ia where we started) just because she didn't make up excuses about, too hard, unrealistic all the other blah blah I keep hearing here about all the issues the US have
If you didn't want to discuss constitutional amendments, you shouldn't have brought up something that would require such a herculean effort to make happen that it is not realistic for the foreseeable future and likely wouldn't even get ratified for decades even if somehow you could get that many Republicans and Democrats on board as your example.
Even Bernie Sanders is against a gun ban. He wants more gun control, but he's not interested in banning guns. Sorry.
Don't be sorry, its all good I'll go to sleep knowing that it's pretty unlikely I'll get shot when out shopping, and if it happens my hospital fees are free. And while away from work, my employer keeps paying my wages because I'm on sick leave, which doesn't impact my holidays balance because PTO and sick leave are separate.
Unfortunately what worked everywhere else in the Western world for a vast amount of issues clearly can't work in the US because reasons. OK.
Sorry... did you think I was defending America? Because I think it's pretty clear I wasn't.
Most of the rest of the Western world is not an oligarchy designed to maximize profits for a tiny handful of people. That is the "because reasons." This is like asking why North Koreans haven't risen up and deposed the Kim family yet. The real world doesn't work that way.
I know you weren't, which is even more frustraring because we want the same things and the only reason I'm engaging :)
Most of the rest of the western countries absolutely are oligarchies designed to maximise profits for a handful of people, some more than others, sometimes a good government happens for a cycle or two and then bad ones for a while. Doesn't mean people can't demand change and sometimes, not always, obtain it.
Many of us have been demanding change for a very long time now. I certainly have. But the people in charge don't want change. I still march for change, but I can't make it happen.
So perhaps consider changing your approach to something that actually might accomplish something? Instead of just asking nicely over and over without results?