Americans be like;
“If you can’t afford to pay 69% tip then don’t go out eating at all”
If you're going to say "69%" , you need to call it eating out, not out eating.
It’s only eating out if it’s 69%, otherwise it’s just sparkling oral.
While getting fucked! What a meal!
Also, complaining that things will cost too much if waiters eek by on more than minimum wage.
The cost is literally the same... Restaurants would just be upfront about it then.
That would be upsetting to the business owners, though. You know - the Job Creators.
If I'm directly responsible for their salary, then they're working for me. I created that job.
You assume the restaurant's prices are connected to wages in any meaningful way. We're paying the wages. That's all food cost and profit.
Eek! They eke out a living on so little!
I gotta say, complaining about being on the verge of a recession while going out for a $70 meal really puts my poverty into perspective.
If all I had to do was 69 my waiter, I'd be eating out a lot more
Something I don't get, why is it percentage based? I mean, I get it from the waiters perspective. But as a customer? Whether my one plate of food is 20$ or 200$, he did the same thing. Scaling with more items of time spent would seem more appropriate.
If you are are trying to find logic within tipping you might as well chase windmills. It's dumb as bolts.
Chasing a windmill would be really easy tho.
Just don't get chasing waterfalls though.
On the other hand rivers and lakes are so stupid.
Well usually more people means a higher bill, more people is more work. Lots of places even just add gratuity to the bill once a group size is large enough.
But tipping is dumb, and working in the service industry sucks... I have no easy solutions.
I have no easy solutions.
There's an easy one that could be legislated tomorrow by any states.
Raise minimum wages and enforce it throughout ALL workplaces, including wait staff. Nobody should be earning less than a living wage just because they're restaraunt staff.
I see it as a sneaky incentive from management for waiters to upsell you on more sides, drinks and desserts.
Since the more marked up extras a waiter/waitress can fool people into getting, the better tip they can hope to earn at the end because of the %-based expectation.
Because it's a con, and if it were a flat rate, people would see it for the con it is. By making it a percentage of sales, you can delude people in to believing they're going to make more in tips than they would on an hourly rate.
Sometimes that's true, for the vast majority of servers it isn't.
What do you mean? Corporate profits are higher than they’ve ever been!
/s in case that wasn’t obvious
Planet earth's been on the verge of a recession since 4bya. Various economists have been able to predict a recession every year since the term was invented. Stay safe
Michael Burry has successfully predicted 92 of the last 3 recessions.
I like how i said the same thing but got downvoted lol. What is the matter with this place?
The whole damn system exists to place the burden of a living wage on the customer while the company paying peanuts can claim no wrongdoing. And the really sad part is: it has worked.
Edit: and there are many, many businesses that wouldn't be in business if they actually had to pay competitive wages on their own. The invisible hand can fix nothing if tipping culture says to throw more and more arbitrary amounts of money at people to subsidize their wages yourself. At some point (I'd argue we're past it already), the band-aid needs to get ripped off. Only then will we see self-correction. The almost immediate loss of many businesses will likely trigger other actions. It's already a no-win scenario.
I remember when I realized tipping is insane (like 15 years ago at a bar). One of my friends was talking the waitress up and she was complaining about another table and the tip she expected. Some quick math worked out to she expected 40%.
Keep in mind by doing that she probably raised her tip from your friend by at least 10%. I wouldn't assume there wasn't some strategy in that conversation.
What was the total? That could be completely reasonable, if I order coffee and a piece of pie 40% is only a couple of bucks
I've literally never seen a waiter get angry about not leaving a 25% tip. Can we please avoid manufactured outrage?
You think someone on here would lie or exaggerate for clicks?
We definitely get a little peeved if it's under 15, but frankly those people aren't worth getting mad at. Someone else always comes by and makes up for it anyways
Plus, it's unprofessional, awkward, and generally pointless to actually say something about it.
I just stopped going to places or using services that expect me to tip. I hate the idea of tipping.
I look at it as Actual price = menu price + lowest suggested tip + $5 tip awkwardness penalty. So a place near me has a $12 lunch-size sub sandwich that's really good. But they ask for a 15% tip. So rather than just never eat at my favorite sandwich spot, I regard it as a $18.80 lunch and only buy it on rare occasions or when my company is paying.
You're tipping at a sandwich shop? Do they even bring you the sandwich and fill your drink for you?
It does annoy me slightly when POS systems have placeholder tip amounts but they're like 18%, 20%, and 25%. Sorry, but I just do the standard 15% in most cases so now I gotta calculate it out in my head.
I'm gonna go with the standard 0% or round up the number if i feel like it.
Right? Like why is people's STANDARD giving money away.
Normally, you're paying a tip on service. So, the waiter hovering over your table and collecting your order / refilling your drink / dusting off the table between courses is part of the dining experience. Its fee for service.
But yeah, now the credit card reader asks if you want to pay a tip to the fucking vending machine. Its asinine.
There's a self service store in the Newark airport that sells overpriced snacks for travelers stuck without any other options. It asks you for a tip while you check yourself out. As if paying $6 for a cup of juice wasn't bad enough already.
Price of the product and service is the list price. Tipping is extra
Tipping isn't mandatory. But the issue is if a lot of people stop tipping all at once, servers will quit those locations. Then those locations will almost certainly go out of business because they can't afford to pay a living wage because the US's commercial real estate is insanely expensive. Current restaurant models essentially are built on this dynamic and to change it would require a lot of moving pieces to change. But for those pieces to change, a LOT of businesses will need to go out of business all at once to tank the real estate market.
And you may think: if they can't afford to pay a living wage, they should go out of business. That's a reasonable stance but it ignores the result: megacorps will buy up real estate and only huge chain restaurants will likely survive these kinds of busts. All your local favorite places will go under and be replaced by Fridays or Applebees because their thousands of locations can close 25% to focus on profitability.
I’ve been asked for tips when having carryout. And also getting a scoop of ice cream. Tipping is a relic of racist practices when southern people didn’t want to pay emancipated black workers a wage. It only still exists because restaurant owners lobby congress to keep it a thing. Stop bribing congress and pay your employees you fucks.
I just had a POS machine recommend 20%, 25%, or 30% for percentages. It seems like it's increasing
I had one do that (well, even higher, 25, 30, 35, Other) for a retailer recently. Like, it took them under 10 seconds to ring me up and they should automatically get 25%? I chose zero.
You chose wisely
For POS they'd be much more likely to get a tip from me if the options were $0.50, $1.00, or $1.50.
The standard tip at a POS is 0. Generally the same for carry out.
If you're not getting personal service by a human, you don't need to tip.
They do it because they can get away with it and it makes money off of suckers.
I just keep reading this as Piece of Shit machine, and I don't think I'm too off the mark here.
Every time we go to Toronto we go to the same restaurant because they don't accept tips, they just pay their staff really well. Fantastic restaurant and I love supporting them.
That's how it should be. Tips supplement incomes so restaurant owners can pocket the profits that would have gone to paying their staff better. If all restaurants moved to this model, everyone would be a lot happier.
And it's such a great restaurant and makes you feel like you're helping hospitality be a great industry.
we're on the verge of a recession I gotta cut back
someone should make and serve my meals for me
the correct analysis of how full of shit OP is, good job
Keep this garbage out of europe please. i see it popping up. I will absolutely refuse to tip a single goddamn soul at this point going forward.
Scotland is a goner, last time I was there all the card terminals had it. Asked a waitress if she would get the tip if I have one and she flushed, mumbled something, looked at the boss and sheepishly said it gets shared. I bet none of the staff sees any of it.
Tipping is pretty normal here in Germany but not required, no one depends on it. Probably because our minimum wage is actually high enough. Germany's minimum wage of 12.50€/h is almost double that of the US, which is $7.25/h or 6.76€/h if you convert it.
Edit: I just found out in this thread that businesses don't even have to pay minimum wage in the US, they just have to pay what's left for the tips to cover the minimum wage. That's so fucking stupid, holy shit.
It's worse than you think -- In most US States, you can pay people way under the minimum wage as long as their tips make up for it. So an average waiter might make 2 bucks and hour on paper. If they didn't get enough tips to reach minimum wage, the restaurant would have to pay them out on top of that, but it's just this fucked up cultural thing to give restaurant owners free labor that the customers pay for.
One thing: We're not on the verge of a recession. The right wing media needs to make things up to attack and that was one of them. I couldn't believe all that talk, nothing happened, nothing was about to happen, but they fear mongered for months.
I personally 100% think we were on the brink of a recession and Biden dropping a trillion into the economy avoided it.
Biden should be talking up the soft landing every time he answers a question, imho. Uncle Joe saved us all a lot of pain with that.
It's true, but it's not a great talking point. Every time you say we're in a good spot, you're going to have voters who aren't in a good spot. So then you have to couch it in talk about doing more.
You're right in that it's worthy of bragging about; it's just a tricky subject.
I don’t really get why the expected percentage went up. 15% was the standard for a LONG time. 20% meant you thought they were great. Now 15 is considered shitty, like an insult, and we’re supposed to do 18 or 25 or 30. Meanwhile prices also went up. Why am I supposed to tip 25% now? Service hasn’t changed.
Tipping in general should be for a good service or out of convenience. It shouldn't be expected
I've always tipped 20% for good service and 15% for average or below. I usually don't tip less that 15% unless it's just abysmal or I'm picking up a to go order in which case I usually do 8-10%. Several of the restaurants around me have changed from 15% / 20% on the suggested tip to 20% / 25% and a few have even added 30%. And I've also noticed the suggested tips are calculated on the after tax amount, and some restaurants that charge a credit card processing fee calculate the suggested tip on that amount. I tip on pretax and pre-fee totals and cap at 20%. If it get worse, my eating at restaurants will start becoming less and less.
Why on gods green earth would you tip when you’re picking up a to-go order? Insanity! Stay strong - don’t do it!
Because minimum wage for servers stayed dirt cheap while inflation skyrocketed, and now businesses are fighting to keep servers employed (but still aren't willing to pay a living wage).
It's all fueled by cyclical logic where the business refuses to accept that they're immoral for requiring tipping. Might be legal- it's still a concious failure of responsibility to short your staff and expect someone else to make up that difference.
Getting real sick of the customer holding the weight of being the financial planner for a business and the owners getting by with no blame for wage stealing and shitty business practices in this circumstance.
$70 is a few days worth of food if you do groceries. Plus $0 tips
On the verge of a recession is gonna be new go to excuse.
“Sorry babe, can’t do a bday gift this year. Nothing has changed for me, but there may or may not be a recession lurking in the shadows”
Last night, my wife and I ordered Chinese for Valentine's Day. Cost $100. Tried to tip the delivery guy a $20, and he turned it down lol. He then gave my cat a temptations treat, out of a freshly opened bag he had in his pocket. Dude was amazing!
Lmfao 🤣 Same face my chauffeur makes when he doesn’t get his Christmas bonus cause we’re on the verge of a recession
Actually pay restaurant workers a decent wage goddammit!
I can't agree more. Tips should be considered an "occasional" extra. This kind of bullshit try to shift the responsibility of the indecent low salaries to customers who already pay the full price of the service.
We call it charity elsewhere. It's a good thing but you shouldn't build an economic system in top of it
Ahh yes, verge of a recession, but there's enough money to patronize a sit down restaurant where it's well known that the owner pays their staff starvation wages. Fuck your server!
Yeah...... If you can't afford the tip, then you can't afford the meal. If you're morally opposed to tipping culture, then don't give money to the restaurants who rely on tipping.
Not tipping at a restaurant isn't some revolutionary act, it's just being a dick to workers. Waiters aren't some sort of class betrayer, they're just another worker being screwed over by management.
I don't like tipping culture either, but at the end of the week that waiter is still going to have to pay rent.
Yeah, if you're not tipping, you're not fucking over the owner. You're not railing against the tipping system. You're just fucking over your server. Which makes you a dick.
If everyone stopped tipping, the wait staff would demand more money, or leave. The owner would have to pay more to employees.
So yeah, not tipping is fucking over the waiter, unless everyone stopped tipping. Then that would fuck over the owner.
If you can't afford the bill then don't eat there. That sucks to hear I know. However the only way we're going to reign in costs is by sticking to what's affordable. If restaurants can't charge that price then food distributors have to lower prices too. We all benefit by sticking to affordability.
If you're worried about money you absolutely should open up the restaurant's menu on their website or before you order and figure out what you can afford with a 20% surcharge. That said tipping was created by the industry to externalize costs and it needs to go die in a fire.
I don't eat out at resturants ever - and guess what! When that happens, they bitch and moan about my not supporting local businesses, and steal millions in PPP loans!
You'll hate to hear this, but restaurants struggling to fill positions and having to offer more benefits and pay to attract wait staff is the only way to end tipping culture. Tipping will never end itself.
I think the point isn't about the bill but the expectation of massive tips. It's too out of control to me, I used to tip 20% everywhere. Now I've gone back to 15% for regular service, and 20% if it's really exceptional.
I've never had anyone say anything about a 15-20% tip.
I always found percentage to be a bit stupid as a measure. If I'm eating by myself max I will tip is 10%. All they did was walk out a plate of food and refill the water a handful of times
2 people then 15%
If there's like 8 people then maybe 15% + 1% per person.
For decent service you would expect from competent staff that is, if it's excellent than a bit more and terrible a bit less.
Genuine question: how does that work though?
If I consume $30 worth, and tip 10%, waiter gets $3.
If there's two of us, and we consume $60, the waiter probably does 60% extra work for 100% extra tip at 10% of the total bill ($6)
I would have thought (but perhaps I'm wrong) that the waiter does less work per person as the number of people at a table increases, so why would the percentage tip go up?
And as far as the bill goes, if there's only me, I'll likely stick to soft drinks. Whereas when there are more people in my group, I'd be much more likely to grab a bottle of wine to share, pushing the total bill per person up, and thus the tip.
I just find with two or more people there's more to keep in mind for orders and stuff and remembering what kind of drinks someone has for topping up or refilling, plus the cooks (should) get a portion of the tip so they'll be cooking twice as much food at the same time which is a little more difficult. In general it's a little more work to serve more people because of time constraints and number of things to remember.
You can have 12 single people at 12 different tables and it would be a lot easier than 24 people paired up at 12 tables.
Went to my normally favorite bar today and they updated their tipping button recommendations to "20%", "69%", and "100%". The 69% was the default option which while I know they're memeing, seemed really uncool as I nearly clicked approve without noticing.
I honestly don't know why people go to restaurants in the US. I don't want a guilt trip from the waiter with my expensive meal. Talk about a buzz kill.
Why not pay hospitality workers a halfway decent wage, and leave tipping for exemplary service? That's how it works in the rest of the developed world.
That's how it works in the developed world.
Ftfy
Because the US is a failed state hiding under a developed world costume.
Here in Brazil, tipping is not normal. Instead, restaurants and bars will add a 10% service cost to the bill. This 10% is then weekly divided between cooks, waiters, bartenders, etc, the proportion being decided by the restaurant.
That is of course not a law, but it is so common that restaurant workers already consider that when thinking how much they make. My sister worked as a bartender at a restaurant recently, and she would add R$300 (roughly $60, yes it's not much, but remember we're a middle income country) to her monthly paycheck from this.
Tipping is more than just a custom; there really is a culture to it. If you're tipping only because you know the server makes less than minimum wage from the restaurant (or that greedy restaurant owners are completely to blame for this injustice), I think you may be misunderstanding an aspect of this culture.
Working in a restaurant is as hard a retail job as there is, and working as a server is often the hardest job in the restaurant. Being a truly good server requires a rare mix of people skills, math skills, memory, and a thick skin. So why do people choose to take the hardest job there is in the whole restaurant, when it pays less than all the other jobs?
Most servers end up getting paid better than the people doing other jobs in the restaurant. In most restaurants, servers make more than minimum wage. At the end of their shifts, most servers in turn tip-out the front-of-the-house employees, such as hosts and bussers, who often do only make minimum wage.
A truly excellent server may be the highest-paid employee for an entire shift -- that certainly includes the manager and anyone else on salary, and it may even include the owner, when you add in labor and upkeep costs.
In order to make all that money, however, this server has to work at all the times that everyone else is out having fun -- Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday morning. This server must put up with drunks, picky eaters and other narcissists, as well as seating errors and kitchen mistakes, all with a smile, for six or eight or ten hours straight. This server, who earns more than anyone else on the shift, is working harder than anyone else on the shift.
This is the other aspect that I wanted to address. Tipping culture is what gives that excellent server the opportunity to earn a better wage, more appropriate to the effort and expertise they devote to the job.
I'm sure this all sounds very capitalist, because it is. This may not be the most capitalism-friendly forum, I know, but I'm not trying to make any larger argument here.
I'm just saying that to me, it seems like this should be a "don't hate the players" (owners, managers, servers, rich/drunk people who like to leave big tips) "hate the game" (tipping culture). And even if you do hate tipping culture, it couldn't hurt to consider how it works for the people who don't hate it.
First, good servers are far and few between and yet the expectation is always there (even in Canada for some bizarre reason). And people's definition of good is also different. I don't care about service with a smile, or being periodically asked if the food is good. That's actually annoying to me. Just get my order right and get my bill within a reasonable time. Even if you are juggling 3-5 different tables, you have a notepad for a reason. That's not worth much to me, especially since those are requirements of many other min wage jobs (ffs EMT personnel salaries are not paid much more than min wage, you see them asking for tips?).
Second, tipping culture goes easy beyond dining in. They ask for it whenever you pay, even takeout. That's just rude imo.
Third, anecdotally, service quality is not correlated with tipping. The best servers I've experienced have been going to Japan where they don't do tips.
And it may seem that this is punching down, but it is not because conceptually tipping is a mechanism to justify suppressing wages/value of labor by businesses. Instead, "hating The game" should be about raising min wage as a whole so businesses pay more, and if that means goods cost more, at least the consumers are more informed that way.
We had "server wages" in Canada up until very recently, hence why tipping culture exists here too.
I worked at a restaurant as a kid washing dishes and servers did fuck all, made bank, and complained about how it wasn't enough. I lost all respect for waiters at that job (but I saw the same behaviors repeated too later in life. In the bay you'd notice that as soon as you didn't order an overpriced cocktail with dinner, your waiter would peg you as a low spender and basically just never come back unless you flagged them down).
Cooks... Good cooks are nuts to me. They'll be cooking 10 different things simultaneously with timers running in their heads. I had no idea how they managed it.
I worked in this culture. It’s very toxic. Stop trying to romanticize it. The movie ‘waiting’ was super on point on how it actually is.
25% ??!
Damn I remember when it was 10%, or maybe just the tax if you were cheap. The American public is way better at giving underpaid workers wages that keep up with inflation than the government!
Americans be like; “If you can’t afford to pay 69% tip then don’t go out eating at all”
If you're going to say "69%" , you need to call it eating out, not out eating.
It’s only eating out if it’s 69%, otherwise it’s just sparkling oral.
While getting fucked! What a meal!
Also, complaining that things will cost too much if waiters eek by on more than minimum wage.
The cost is literally the same... Restaurants would just be upfront about it then.
That would be upsetting to the business owners, though. You know - the Job Creators.
If I'm directly responsible for their salary, then they're working for me. I created that job.
You assume the restaurant's prices are connected to wages in any meaningful way. We're paying the wages. That's all food cost and profit.
Eek! They eke out a living on so little!
I gotta say, complaining about being on the verge of a recession while going out for a $70 meal really puts my poverty into perspective.
If all I had to do was 69 my waiter, I'd be eating out a lot more
Something I don't get, why is it percentage based? I mean, I get it from the waiters perspective. But as a customer? Whether my one plate of food is 20$ or 200$, he did the same thing. Scaling with more items of time spent would seem more appropriate.
If you are are trying to find logic within tipping you might as well chase windmills. It's dumb as bolts.
Chasing a windmill would be really easy tho.
Just don't get chasing waterfalls though.
On the other hand rivers and lakes are so stupid.
Well usually more people means a higher bill, more people is more work. Lots of places even just add gratuity to the bill once a group size is large enough.
But tipping is dumb, and working in the service industry sucks... I have no easy solutions.
There's an easy one that could be legislated tomorrow by any states.
Raise minimum wages and enforce it throughout ALL workplaces, including wait staff. Nobody should be earning less than a living wage just because they're restaraunt staff.
I see it as a sneaky incentive from management for waiters to upsell you on more sides, drinks and desserts.
Since the more marked up extras a waiter/waitress can fool people into getting, the better tip they can hope to earn at the end because of the %-based expectation.
Because it's a con, and if it were a flat rate, people would see it for the con it is. By making it a percentage of sales, you can delude people in to believing they're going to make more in tips than they would on an hourly rate.
Sometimes that's true, for the vast majority of servers it isn't.
"On the verge" of a recession? What the fuck planet are you living on?
"No need to worry, citizen! We have once again successfully avoided a recession by changing how a recession is defined!"
How can it be a recession when the .01% is richer than ever before?
What do you mean? Corporate profits are higher than they’ve ever been!
/s in case that wasn’t obvious
Planet earth's been on the verge of a recession since 4bya. Various economists have been able to predict a recession every year since the term was invented. Stay safe
Michael Burry has successfully predicted 92 of the last 3 recessions.
I like how i said the same thing but got downvoted lol. What is the matter with this place?
The whole damn system exists to place the burden of a living wage on the customer while the company paying peanuts can claim no wrongdoing. And the really sad part is: it has worked.
Edit: and there are many, many businesses that wouldn't be in business if they actually had to pay competitive wages on their own. The invisible hand can fix nothing if tipping culture says to throw more and more arbitrary amounts of money at people to subsidize their wages yourself. At some point (I'd argue we're past it already), the band-aid needs to get ripped off. Only then will we see self-correction. The almost immediate loss of many businesses will likely trigger other actions. It's already a no-win scenario.
I remember when I realized tipping is insane (like 15 years ago at a bar). One of my friends was talking the waitress up and she was complaining about another table and the tip she expected. Some quick math worked out to she expected 40%.
Keep in mind by doing that she probably raised her tip from your friend by at least 10%. I wouldn't assume there wasn't some strategy in that conversation.
What was the total? That could be completely reasonable, if I order coffee and a piece of pie 40% is only a couple of bucks
I've literally never seen a waiter get angry about not leaving a 25% tip. Can we please avoid manufactured outrage?
You think someone on here would lie or exaggerate for clicks?
We definitely get a little peeved if it's under 15, but frankly those people aren't worth getting mad at. Someone else always comes by and makes up for it anyways
Plus, it's unprofessional, awkward, and generally pointless to actually say something about it.
I just stopped going to places or using services that expect me to tip. I hate the idea of tipping.
I look at it as Actual price = menu price + lowest suggested tip + $5 tip awkwardness penalty. So a place near me has a $12 lunch-size sub sandwich that's really good. But they ask for a 15% tip. So rather than just never eat at my favorite sandwich spot, I regard it as a $18.80 lunch and only buy it on rare occasions or when my company is paying.
You're tipping at a sandwich shop? Do they even bring you the sandwich and fill your drink for you?
You tip a fastfood?
It does annoy me slightly when POS systems have placeholder tip amounts but they're like 18%, 20%, and 25%. Sorry, but I just do the standard 15% in most cases so now I gotta calculate it out in my head.
I'm gonna go with the standard 0% or round up the number if i feel like it.
Right? Like why is people's STANDARD giving money away.
Normally, you're paying a tip on service. So, the waiter hovering over your table and collecting your order / refilling your drink / dusting off the table between courses is part of the dining experience. Its fee for service.
But yeah, now the credit card reader asks if you want to pay a tip to the fucking vending machine. Its asinine.
There's a self service store in the Newark airport that sells overpriced snacks for travelers stuck without any other options. It asks you for a tip while you check yourself out. As if paying $6 for a cup of juice wasn't bad enough already.
Price of the product and service is the list price. Tipping is extra
Because that's how our service industry is built.
Tipping isn't mandatory. But the issue is if a lot of people stop tipping all at once, servers will quit those locations. Then those locations will almost certainly go out of business because they can't afford to pay a living wage because the US's commercial real estate is insanely expensive. Current restaurant models essentially are built on this dynamic and to change it would require a lot of moving pieces to change. But for those pieces to change, a LOT of businesses will need to go out of business all at once to tank the real estate market.
And you may think: if they can't afford to pay a living wage, they should go out of business. That's a reasonable stance but it ignores the result: megacorps will buy up real estate and only huge chain restaurants will likely survive these kinds of busts. All your local favorite places will go under and be replaced by Fridays or Applebees because their thousands of locations can close 25% to focus on profitability.
I’ve been asked for tips when having carryout. And also getting a scoop of ice cream. Tipping is a relic of racist practices when southern people didn’t want to pay emancipated black workers a wage. It only still exists because restaurant owners lobby congress to keep it a thing. Stop bribing congress and pay your employees you fucks.
I just had a POS machine recommend 20%, 25%, or 30% for percentages. It seems like it's increasing
I had one do that (well, even higher, 25, 30, 35, Other) for a retailer recently. Like, it took them under 10 seconds to ring me up and they should automatically get 25%? I chose zero.
You chose wisely
For POS they'd be much more likely to get a tip from me if the options were $0.50, $1.00, or $1.50.
The standard tip at a POS is 0. Generally the same for carry out.
If you're not getting personal service by a human, you don't need to tip.
They do it because they can get away with it and it makes money off of suckers.
I just keep reading this as Piece of Shit machine, and I don't think I'm too off the mark here.
As a non-native speaker, I assume POS != Peace of shit?
Point of Sale.
But you're correct in that most of these Point of Sale systems are also Pieces of Shit.
Can confirm.
Source: I make POS systems.
POS in normal talk means piece of shit. POS in business talk means point of sale.
Often it means that but in this case it means "Point Of Sale"
If my tip is to be decided before I see my order in front of me, 5% tops if at all.
Restaurants when they expect a 40% tip after you drive to the store for pickup
Every time we go to Toronto we go to the same restaurant because they don't accept tips, they just pay their staff really well. Fantastic restaurant and I love supporting them.
That's how it should be. Tips supplement incomes so restaurant owners can pocket the profits that would have gone to paying their staff better. If all restaurants moved to this model, everyone would be a lot happier.
And it's such a great restaurant and makes you feel like you're helping hospitality be a great industry.
What's the restaurant called? The tipping in CA drives me nuts, it would be nice to have a simple option in Toronto to go for!
Richmond Station. It's SO good. The food is amazing.
the correct analysis of how full of shit OP is, good job
Keep this garbage out of europe please. i see it popping up. I will absolutely refuse to tip a single goddamn soul at this point going forward.
Scotland is a goner, last time I was there all the card terminals had it. Asked a waitress if she would get the tip if I have one and she flushed, mumbled something, looked at the boss and sheepishly said it gets shared. I bet none of the staff sees any of it.
Which is illegal! If you tip a waiter/waitress then the money must go to them: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/all-tips-to-go-to-staff-under-government-plans-to-enhance-rights-of-2-million-workers
I mean I'm not sure what you can do other than name and shame the restaurant, and/or boycott it
Tipping is pretty normal here in Germany but not required, no one depends on it. Probably because our minimum wage is actually high enough. Germany's minimum wage of 12.50€/h is almost double that of the US, which is $7.25/h or 6.76€/h if you convert it.
Edit: I just found out in this thread that businesses don't even have to pay minimum wage in the US, they just have to pay what's left for the tips to cover the minimum wage. That's so fucking stupid, holy shit.
It's worse than you think -- In most US States, you can pay people way under the minimum wage as long as their tips make up for it. So an average waiter might make 2 bucks and hour on paper. If they didn't get enough tips to reach minimum wage, the restaurant would have to pay them out on top of that, but it's just this fucked up cultural thing to give restaurant owners free labor that the customers pay for.
One thing: We're not on the verge of a recession. The right wing media needs to make things up to attack and that was one of them. I couldn't believe all that talk, nothing happened, nothing was about to happen, but they fear mongered for months.
I personally 100% think we were on the brink of a recession and Biden dropping a trillion into the economy avoided it.
Biden should be talking up the soft landing every time he answers a question, imho. Uncle Joe saved us all a lot of pain with that.
It's true, but it's not a great talking point. Every time you say we're in a good spot, you're going to have voters who aren't in a good spot. So then you have to couch it in talk about doing more.
You're right in that it's worthy of bragging about; it's just a tricky subject.
It's been about a year and a half since we've been right on the brink of a recession.
I don’t really get why the expected percentage went up. 15% was the standard for a LONG time. 20% meant you thought they were great. Now 15 is considered shitty, like an insult, and we’re supposed to do 18 or 25 or 30. Meanwhile prices also went up. Why am I supposed to tip 25% now? Service hasn’t changed.
Tipping in general should be for a good service or out of convenience. It shouldn't be expected
I've always tipped 20% for good service and 15% for average or below. I usually don't tip less that 15% unless it's just abysmal or I'm picking up a to go order in which case I usually do 8-10%. Several of the restaurants around me have changed from 15% / 20% on the suggested tip to 20% / 25% and a few have even added 30%. And I've also noticed the suggested tips are calculated on the after tax amount, and some restaurants that charge a credit card processing fee calculate the suggested tip on that amount. I tip on pretax and pre-fee totals and cap at 20%. If it get worse, my eating at restaurants will start becoming less and less.
Why on gods green earth would you tip when you’re picking up a to-go order? Insanity! Stay strong - don’t do it!
Because minimum wage for servers stayed dirt cheap while inflation skyrocketed, and now businesses are fighting to keep servers employed (but still aren't willing to pay a living wage).
It's all fueled by cyclical logic where the business refuses to accept that they're immoral for requiring tipping. Might be legal- it's still a concious failure of responsibility to short your staff and expect someone else to make up that difference.
I thought 10% was standard.
Look at Mr. Fatcat over here eating out while we're on the verge of a recession.
We've been on the verge of a recession for years. It's just called "life" now.
25%?
Nope: Get fucked lol
Getting real sick of the customer holding the weight of being the financial planner for a business and the owners getting by with no blame for wage stealing and shitty business practices in this circumstance.
$70 is a few days worth of food if you do groceries. Plus $0 tips
On the verge of a recession is gonna be new go to excuse.
“Sorry babe, can’t do a bday gift this year. Nothing has changed for me, but there may or may not be a recession lurking in the shadows”
Last night, my wife and I ordered Chinese for Valentine's Day. Cost $100. Tried to tip the delivery guy a $20, and he turned it down lol. He then gave my cat a temptations treat, out of a freshly opened bag he had in his pocket. Dude was amazing!
Lmfao 🤣 Same face my chauffeur makes when he doesn’t get his Christmas bonus cause we’re on the verge of a recession
Actually pay restaurant workers a decent wage goddammit!
I can't agree more. Tips should be considered an "occasional" extra. This kind of bullshit try to shift the responsibility of the indecent low salaries to customers who already pay the full price of the service.
We call it charity elsewhere. It's a good thing but you shouldn't build an economic system in top of it
Ahh yes, verge of a recession, but there's enough money to patronize a sit down restaurant where it's well known that the owner pays their staff starvation wages. Fuck your server!
Yeah...... If you can't afford the tip, then you can't afford the meal. If you're morally opposed to tipping culture, then don't give money to the restaurants who rely on tipping.
Not tipping at a restaurant isn't some revolutionary act, it's just being a dick to workers. Waiters aren't some sort of class betrayer, they're just another worker being screwed over by management.
I don't like tipping culture either, but at the end of the week that waiter is still going to have to pay rent.
Yeah, if you're not tipping, you're not fucking over the owner. You're not railing against the tipping system. You're just fucking over your server. Which makes you a dick.
If everyone stopped tipping, the wait staff would demand more money, or leave. The owner would have to pay more to employees.
So yeah, not tipping is fucking over the waiter, unless everyone stopped tipping. Then that would fuck over the owner.
Weeg, I honestly don't have a list with wage tables for each restaurant that I visit.
Don't restaurants have to obey minimum wages? If they do, the waiters earn just like everyone else. If they don't, then why the f don't they?
Where is minimum wage livable?
In most places wait staff only need to be paid the minimum wage if their next-to-nothing wage plus tips doesn't exceed minimum wage.
If you can't afford the bill then don't eat there. That sucks to hear I know. However the only way we're going to reign in costs is by sticking to what's affordable. If restaurants can't charge that price then food distributors have to lower prices too. We all benefit by sticking to affordability.
If you're worried about money you absolutely should open up the restaurant's menu on their website or before you order and figure out what you can afford with a 20% surcharge. That said tipping was created by the industry to externalize costs and it needs to go die in a fire.
I don't eat out at resturants ever - and guess what! When that happens, they bitch and moan about my not supporting local businesses, and steal millions in PPP loans!
You'll hate to hear this, but restaurants struggling to fill positions and having to offer more benefits and pay to attract wait staff is the only way to end tipping culture. Tipping will never end itself.
I think the point isn't about the bill but the expectation of massive tips. It's too out of control to me, I used to tip 20% everywhere. Now I've gone back to 15% for regular service, and 20% if it's really exceptional.
I've never had anyone say anything about a 15-20% tip.
How about increasing wages to promote more consumer spending? Henry Ford-- a literal Nazi-- of all people, knew this!
25% is INSANE, even not during recession.
It's literally 1/4 of the meal.
INSANE.
I always found percentage to be a bit stupid as a measure. If I'm eating by myself max I will tip is 10%. All they did was walk out a plate of food and refill the water a handful of times
2 people then 15%
If there's like 8 people then maybe 15% + 1% per person.
For decent service you would expect from competent staff that is, if it's excellent than a bit more and terrible a bit less.
Genuine question: how does that work though?
I would have thought (but perhaps I'm wrong) that the waiter does less work per person as the number of people at a table increases, so why would the percentage tip go up?
And as far as the bill goes, if there's only me, I'll likely stick to soft drinks. Whereas when there are more people in my group, I'd be much more likely to grab a bottle of wine to share, pushing the total bill per person up, and thus the tip.
I just find with two or more people there's more to keep in mind for orders and stuff and remembering what kind of drinks someone has for topping up or refilling, plus the cooks (should) get a portion of the tip so they'll be cooking twice as much food at the same time which is a little more difficult. In general it's a little more work to serve more people because of time constraints and number of things to remember.
You can have 12 single people at 12 different tables and it would be a lot easier than 24 people paired up at 12 tables.
Went to my normally favorite bar today and they updated their tipping button recommendations to "20%", "69%", and "100%". The 69% was the default option which while I know they're memeing, seemed really uncool as I nearly clicked approve without noticing.
I honestly don't know why people go to restaurants in the US. I don't want a guilt trip from the waiter with my expensive meal. Talk about a buzz kill.
Why not pay hospitality workers a halfway decent wage, and leave tipping for exemplary service? That's how it works in the rest of the developed world.
Ftfy
Because the US is a failed state hiding under a developed world costume.
Here in Brazil, tipping is not normal. Instead, restaurants and bars will add a 10% service cost to the bill. This 10% is then weekly divided between cooks, waiters, bartenders, etc, the proportion being decided by the restaurant.
That is of course not a law, but it is so common that restaurant workers already consider that when thinking how much they make. My sister worked as a bartender at a restaurant recently, and she would add R$300 (roughly $60, yes it's not much, but remember we're a middle income country) to her monthly paycheck from this.
Tipping is more than just a custom; there really is a culture to it. If you're tipping only because you know the server makes less than minimum wage from the restaurant (or that greedy restaurant owners are completely to blame for this injustice), I think you may be misunderstanding an aspect of this culture.
Working in a restaurant is as hard a retail job as there is, and working as a server is often the hardest job in the restaurant. Being a truly good server requires a rare mix of people skills, math skills, memory, and a thick skin. So why do people choose to take the hardest job there is in the whole restaurant, when it pays less than all the other jobs?
Most servers end up getting paid better than the people doing other jobs in the restaurant. In most restaurants, servers make more than minimum wage. At the end of their shifts, most servers in turn tip-out the front-of-the-house employees, such as hosts and bussers, who often do only make minimum wage.
A truly excellent server may be the highest-paid employee for an entire shift -- that certainly includes the manager and anyone else on salary, and it may even include the owner, when you add in labor and upkeep costs.
In order to make all that money, however, this server has to work at all the times that everyone else is out having fun -- Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday morning. This server must put up with drunks, picky eaters and other narcissists, as well as seating errors and kitchen mistakes, all with a smile, for six or eight or ten hours straight. This server, who earns more than anyone else on the shift, is working harder than anyone else on the shift.
This is the other aspect that I wanted to address. Tipping culture is what gives that excellent server the opportunity to earn a better wage, more appropriate to the effort and expertise they devote to the job.
I'm sure this all sounds very capitalist, because it is. This may not be the most capitalism-friendly forum, I know, but I'm not trying to make any larger argument here.
I'm just saying that to me, it seems like this should be a "don't hate the players" (owners, managers, servers, rich/drunk people who like to leave big tips) "hate the game" (tipping culture). And even if you do hate tipping culture, it couldn't hurt to consider how it works for the people who don't hate it.
First, good servers are far and few between and yet the expectation is always there (even in Canada for some bizarre reason). And people's definition of good is also different. I don't care about service with a smile, or being periodically asked if the food is good. That's actually annoying to me. Just get my order right and get my bill within a reasonable time. Even if you are juggling 3-5 different tables, you have a notepad for a reason. That's not worth much to me, especially since those are requirements of many other min wage jobs (ffs EMT personnel salaries are not paid much more than min wage, you see them asking for tips?).
Second, tipping culture goes easy beyond dining in. They ask for it whenever you pay, even takeout. That's just rude imo.
Third, anecdotally, service quality is not correlated with tipping. The best servers I've experienced have been going to Japan where they don't do tips.
And it may seem that this is punching down, but it is not because conceptually tipping is a mechanism to justify suppressing wages/value of labor by businesses. Instead, "hating The game" should be about raising min wage as a whole so businesses pay more, and if that means goods cost more, at least the consumers are more informed that way.
We had "server wages" in Canada up until very recently, hence why tipping culture exists here too.
I worked at a restaurant as a kid washing dishes and servers did fuck all, made bank, and complained about how it wasn't enough. I lost all respect for waiters at that job (but I saw the same behaviors repeated too later in life. In the bay you'd notice that as soon as you didn't order an overpriced cocktail with dinner, your waiter would peg you as a low spender and basically just never come back unless you flagged them down).
Cooks... Good cooks are nuts to me. They'll be cooking 10 different things simultaneously with timers running in their heads. I had no idea how they managed it.
I worked in this culture. It’s very toxic. Stop trying to romanticize it. The movie ‘waiting’ was super on point on how it actually is.
Don't hate the player, the owner is the one to blame
Never once have I had any person be rude to me for a 20% tip.
I will probably get hate but I also tip based on the before tax portion.
This is what you are supposed to do
20% of $25 is $5.
20% of 109% of $25 is $5.45.
I doubt anyone notices.
25% ??! Damn I remember when it was 10%, or maybe just the tax if you were cheap. The American public is way better at giving underpaid workers wages that keep up with inflation than the government!
But a fixed percentage already includes inflation
This is why I never eat out anymore. Restaurants are complaining that their customer base is shrinking. I wonder why...
Rude - Atleast they could have played them a nice piece on the world's tiniest violin!
We're not on the verge of a recession though.
Edit: lol why am i being downvoted? I'm just stating reality.
Yhea f off with that tiping culture .