States have always had that power. Whether its age, naturalization, or oath-breaking, it's never been up to the federal government to decide disqualification.
Now they do not, as outlined by the supreme court this morning. You can disagree with the ruling all you want, but that doesn't make the premise that "the SC has no problem with insurrectionist behavior!" any less stupid. It's a fallacious premise.
Consider the fact that there is more than one grounds for disqualification. For president, there are also age and naturalization disqualifications.
Who do you think has been determining those all these years?
You're getting further and further away from your original, still ridiculous statement that the SCOTUS has no problem with you storming the building.
That is what is known as "sarcasm". I wasn't sincerely calling for violence against the Supreme Court, but rather drawing attention to their hypocrisy.
it’s never been up to the federal government to decide disqualification.
It's up to Congress to decide if someone is guilty of federal insurrection, not the states.
Edit: I see the downvotes, but I don’t see replies. I thought this was a place for reasoned debate, but it’s as bad as r/politics where anything regarding the orange man is concerned.
On the contrary, Congress is expressly forbidden from deciding whether someone is guilty of a crime.
IMPEACHMENT has entered the chat.
Impeachment is expressly not a criminal procedure. It can't result in prison or fines, nor can it can't be pardoned by the President.
But it is the process by which a candidate can be removed from the ballot.
So if you want to go with Trump is criminally guilty of insurrection, and therefore ineligible to be on the ballot, when and where was the trial?
Being convicted of a crime doesn't disqualify anyone; people have run for President from prison. And most of the people who attacked Congress on Jan. 6 would not be disqualified for it even if they are convicted of a crime for it.
Disqualification is not a criminal punishment. It's not a crime to be 34 years old, for example, or to have been born in another country. But those are still disqualifications, and they are and always have been enforced by the states.
The specific crimes I was thinking of were: impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors or criminal conviction for treason.
"High crimes and misdemeanors" is a term of art that refers to acts committed by a public official which, while not necessarily a crime in themselves, are a violation of public trust.
For example, a president that accepted a foreign title of nobility without Congressional consent would have committed a high crime, but they couldn't be hauled into a criminal court for it.
Right.
Congress would control that, just like determining an insurrection was committed.
They didn't do that.
The media did.
The only thing Congress can do is remove Trump's disqualification under the 14th amendment. They can't decide whether he's disqualified in the first place.
The could have impeached him (again). And if the Senate convicted, he would have been ineligible to run again.
The 14th amendment doesn't require impeachment or criminal conviction, though. It's a completely different disqualification provision from impeachment.
For example, members of Congress cannot be impeached, but they can be disqualified under the 14th amendment. It makes no sense to roll impeachment and the 14th amendment into the same category of disqualification.
One judge "finds" he did it. What a lovely country we would have if that's all it took. No defense, no evidence needed. Just a judges opinion.
Short slope to a work camp. Maybe we could sort of concentrate all the people we disagree with in one.
All fair points that still ignore the guy who tried to overthrow the country where absolutely nothing was done about him, to hold him accountable.
If the feds are saying only they can protect the country from all enemies orange and domestic, there’s about 80 million active voters who might, uh, decidedly disagree. As opposed to some other adverb.
Point is that if the three blue states disqualify without a federal ruling and that stands, then you can bet a bunch of red states will declare Biden disqualified because he stole the election or some crap.
The place to direct frustration is the federal government for failing to make the requisite determination. Not at the unanimous supreme court decision that prevents chaotic behavior by the states with respect to federal races. There should be consistency state to state as to whether a candidate is fundamentally qualified or not.
If O'l Joe has 80 million voters, why are you worried about Trump being on the ballot? He can't possibly win.
Because that anti-american filth being on the ballot legitimizes treason.
Strong emotions there. Take a valium or smoke a bowl before you pop a valve.
You're a clown all over this thread, not a single point made or convert earned. Just shitposting, not even jeans, just snark.
Edit: I see the downvotes, but I don’t see replies. I thought this was a place for reasoned debate, but it’s as bad as r/politics where anything regarding the orange man is concerned.
Textbook Sealion
There's no reason a state can't make that decision. You didn't even make an argument. Just made a statement.
There’s no reason a state can’t make that decision. You didn’t even make an argument. Just made a statement.
I didn't need to make an argument because SCOTUS decided that only Congress is the authority for ballot removal per section 5. It made a lot of people mad and down-arrowed facts. The internet Constitutional scholars came out in droves.
States have always had that power. Whether its age, naturalization, or oath-breaking, it's never been up to the federal government to decide disqualification.
Now they do not, as outlined by the supreme court this morning. You can disagree with the ruling all you want, but that doesn't make the premise that "the SC has no problem with insurrectionist behavior!" any less stupid. It's a fallacious premise.
Consider the fact that there is more than one grounds for disqualification. For president, there are also age and naturalization disqualifications.
Who do you think has been determining those all these years?
You're getting further and further away from your original, still ridiculous statement that the SCOTUS has no problem with you storming the building.
That is what is known as "sarcasm". I wasn't sincerely calling for violence against the Supreme Court, but rather drawing attention to their hypocrisy.
It's up to Congress to decide if someone is guilty of federal insurrection, not the states.
Edit: I see the downvotes, but I don’t see replies. I thought this was a place for reasoned debate, but it’s as bad as r/politics where anything regarding the orange man is concerned.
On the contrary, Congress is expressly forbidden from deciding whether someone is guilty of a crime.
IMPEACHMENT has entered the chat.
Impeachment is expressly not a criminal procedure. It can't result in prison or fines, nor can it can't be pardoned by the President.
But it is the process by which a candidate can be removed from the ballot.
So if you want to go with Trump is criminally guilty of insurrection, and therefore ineligible to be on the ballot, when and where was the trial?
Being convicted of a crime doesn't disqualify anyone; people have run for President from prison. And most of the people who attacked Congress on Jan. 6 would not be disqualified for it even if they are convicted of a crime for it.
Disqualification is not a criminal punishment. It's not a crime to be 34 years old, for example, or to have been born in another country. But those are still disqualifications, and they are and always have been enforced by the states.
The specific crimes I was thinking of were: impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors or criminal conviction for treason.
"High crimes and misdemeanors" is a term of art that refers to acts committed by a public official which, while not necessarily a crime in themselves, are a violation of public trust.
For example, a president that accepted a foreign title of nobility without Congressional consent would have committed a high crime, but they couldn't be hauled into a criminal court for it.
Right.
Congress would control that, just like determining an insurrection was committed.
They didn't do that.
The media did.
The only thing Congress can do is remove Trump's disqualification under the 14th amendment. They can't decide whether he's disqualified in the first place.
The could have impeached him (again). And if the Senate convicted, he would have been ineligible to run again.
The 14th amendment doesn't require impeachment or criminal conviction, though. It's a completely different disqualification provision from impeachment.
For example, members of Congress cannot be impeached, but they can be disqualified under the 14th amendment. It makes no sense to roll impeachment and the 14th amendment into the same category of disqualification.
https://www.npr.org/2023/11/18/1213961050/colorado-judge-finds-trump-engaged-in-insurrection-but-keeps-him-on-ballot
One judge "finds" he did it. What a lovely country we would have if that's all it took. No defense, no evidence needed. Just a judges opinion.
Short slope to a work camp. Maybe we could sort of concentrate all the people we disagree with in one.
All fair points that still ignore the guy who tried to overthrow the country where absolutely nothing was done about him, to hold him accountable.
If the feds are saying only they can protect the country from all enemies orange and domestic, there’s about 80 million active voters who might, uh, decidedly disagree. As opposed to some other adverb.
Point is that if the three blue states disqualify without a federal ruling and that stands, then you can bet a bunch of red states will declare Biden disqualified because he stole the election or some crap.
The place to direct frustration is the federal government for failing to make the requisite determination. Not at the unanimous supreme court decision that prevents chaotic behavior by the states with respect to federal races. There should be consistency state to state as to whether a candidate is fundamentally qualified or not.
If O'l Joe has 80 million voters, why are you worried about Trump being on the ballot? He can't possibly win.
Because that anti-american filth being on the ballot legitimizes treason.
Strong emotions there. Take a valium or smoke a bowl before you pop a valve.
You're a clown all over this thread, not a single point made or convert earned. Just shitposting, not even jeans, just snark.
Fuckin' dork.
Textbook Sealion
There's no reason a state can't make that decision. You didn't even make an argument. Just made a statement.
I didn't need to make an argument because SCOTUS decided that only Congress is the authority for ballot removal per section 5. It made a lot of people mad and down-arrowed facts. The internet Constitutional scholars came out in droves.
Here is the decision that most of them didn't read PDF warning