Remember Trump isn't on the democratic ballot. You can't vote against him until November. Your only choice in the primaries is to vote for Biden or vote that you are here for the other progressive and democratic choices down ballot but Biden has to earn that commitment by doing something against his own personal desire to be a Zionist and instead help starving children get food.
Uncommitted doesn't mean I'm never going to vote for Biden. It just means he has to earn it through action.
Sure, but how many people are casting uncommitted or seeing how unpopular Biden is and are going to stay home in November because of it? My guess is not zero.
I get the protest and the timing, but it’s unclear if it’s really inoffensive in the general.
You don't get the protest then!
If Biden fears this uncommitted vote movement then he will have to do something to stop it in its tracks.
Using his power to stop the weapons and money transfers to Israel and using the words Ceasefire Now would be a start. If he starts doing concrete actions to stop ten year old children wasting away and dying of starvation then the uncommitted vote movement would be over.
Then it sounds like Biden needs to take a firm anti-genocide stance to get those voters to actually vote, no? Do you think the number of Biden voters would decrease if Biden stopped the genocide?
I think the number of voters in general will decrease if Trump wins, considering he wants to get rid of elections entirely.
Do you disagree with the statement that Biden taking an anti-genocide stance, rather than his current pro-genocide with wrist slaps stance, would increase voter turnout?
An honest answer: It would likely increase the progressive voter turnout, but I am unsure about the net effect. I would certainly hope it increases total overall turnout, but unfortunately a large chunk of the voting populace--including a lot of reliable Democrat voters--are still very much pro-Israel.
That said, I would also like to confirm: Assume for the moment that Biden and Trump wins the nomination, and there is no change in the status quo between now and November (this is unlikely, given Biden's recent shifts in policy signaling a possible change in trend, but I want to check against the worst case scenario). Would you still vote for Biden, or would you stay home? Would you staying home potentially affect the outcome (I.e. are you in a solid red/blue state like Alabama or California, or are you in a swing state like Michigan or Georgia)? What would need to change for you to vote for Biden in November?
I don’t know what you intended to post, but my phone wants to open it in WhatsApp
Then your phone is configured to open webp links as WhatsApp links, which is not the correct extension association.
It's an animated image.
Oh I don't doubt that the "uncommited" oppose Trump, too. The problem is the Genocide Joe rhetoric and other similar bullshit. You push that narrative and it may very well have lingering effects in Trump's favor during the general election. Maybe in other elections it didnt matter quite as much, but this is Trump were talking about. Why do you and others like you not get that? Hello, knock, knock. Trump is fully embracing the Hitler playbook and aiming to be president of the Most Powerful Nation on Earth. And you want to bitch about Biden? At this moment...? SMH, it is your sort of fractious indiscipline and short-sightedness that allows fascism to gain power, laughing all the way at your stupidity and inability to mount a coherent defence of democracy. You think you have nothing to lose, but you do. Things can get much, much worse.
Exactly, some people will take this uncommitted thing all the way to the general election. Biden only won by a few hundred thousand votes in swing states. If you weaken enthusiasm in folks to come out for him, all it takes is a few hundred thousand to stay home and Trump will win. Not voting for Biden will elect Trump. You will be helping Trump. You will be electing Trump. And encouraging others to do the same just for fun in the primary is a dangerous game of chicken. You don’t play with loaded guns. Don’t play with the last election the United States may ever have.
Well, you’re implying that you might vote for someone other than Biden in the general, and the impact of that is that Trump will become president and the impact of that is Israel will have a free pass from US leadership to completely annihilate Gaza and kill with impunity. So, in terms of actually achieving the goal of stopping the killing of Palestinians, voting uncommitted is not going to work.
Additionally, and I think this is IMPORTANT, by promoting voting uncommitted and making it a purity test, some people will be influenced by that and ACTUALLY not vote for Biden and this will be the same thing as voting for Trump in that the result of Trump winning will be the same.
Remember Trump isn't on the democratic ballot. You can't vote against him until November. Your only choice in the primaries is to vote for Biden or vote that you are here for the other progressive and democratic choices down ballot but Biden has to earn that commitment by doing something against his own personal desire to be a Zionist and instead help starving children get food.
Uncommitted doesn't mean I'm never going to vote for Biden. It just means he has to earn it through action.
Sure, but how many people are casting uncommitted or seeing how unpopular Biden is and are going to stay home in November because of it? My guess is not zero.
I get the protest and the timing, but it’s unclear if it’s really inoffensive in the general.
You don't get the protest then!
If Biden fears this uncommitted vote movement then he will have to do something to stop it in its tracks.
Using his power to stop the weapons and money transfers to Israel and using the words Ceasefire Now would be a start. If he starts doing concrete actions to stop ten year old children wasting away and dying of starvation then the uncommitted vote movement would be over.
Then it sounds like Biden needs to take a firm anti-genocide stance to get those voters to actually vote, no? Do you think the number of Biden voters would decrease if Biden stopped the genocide?
I think the number of voters in general will decrease if Trump wins, considering he wants to get rid of elections entirely.
Do you disagree with the statement that Biden taking an anti-genocide stance, rather than his current pro-genocide with wrist slaps stance, would increase voter turnout?
An honest answer: It would likely increase the progressive voter turnout, but I am unsure about the net effect. I would certainly hope it increases total overall turnout, but unfortunately a large chunk of the voting populace--including a lot of reliable Democrat voters--are still very much pro-Israel.
That said, I would also like to confirm: Assume for the moment that Biden and Trump wins the nomination, and there is no change in the status quo between now and November (this is unlikely, given Biden's recent shifts in policy signaling a possible change in trend, but I want to check against the worst case scenario). Would you still vote for Biden, or would you stay home? Would you staying home potentially affect the outcome (I.e. are you in a solid red/blue state like Alabama or California, or are you in a swing state like Michigan or Georgia)? What would need to change for you to vote for Biden in November?
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/90b37eb7-c720-4569-aee2-6315c3ad4c4e.webm
I don’t know what you intended to post, but my phone wants to open it in WhatsApp
Then your phone is configured to open webp links as WhatsApp links, which is not the correct extension association.
It's an animated image.
Oh I don't doubt that the "uncommited" oppose Trump, too. The problem is the Genocide Joe rhetoric and other similar bullshit. You push that narrative and it may very well have lingering effects in Trump's favor during the general election. Maybe in other elections it didnt matter quite as much, but this is Trump were talking about. Why do you and others like you not get that? Hello, knock, knock. Trump is fully embracing the Hitler playbook and aiming to be president of the Most Powerful Nation on Earth. And you want to bitch about Biden? At this moment...? SMH, it is your sort of fractious indiscipline and short-sightedness that allows fascism to gain power, laughing all the way at your stupidity and inability to mount a coherent defence of democracy. You think you have nothing to lose, but you do. Things can get much, much worse.
Exactly, some people will take this uncommitted thing all the way to the general election. Biden only won by a few hundred thousand votes in swing states. If you weaken enthusiasm in folks to come out for him, all it takes is a few hundred thousand to stay home and Trump will win. Not voting for Biden will elect Trump. You will be helping Trump. You will be electing Trump. And encouraging others to do the same just for fun in the primary is a dangerous game of chicken. You don’t play with loaded guns. Don’t play with the last election the United States may ever have.
Well, you’re implying that you might vote for someone other than Biden in the general, and the impact of that is that Trump will become president and the impact of that is Israel will have a free pass from US leadership to completely annihilate Gaza and kill with impunity. So, in terms of actually achieving the goal of stopping the killing of Palestinians, voting uncommitted is not going to work.
Additionally, and I think this is IMPORTANT, by promoting voting uncommitted and making it a purity test, some people will be influenced by that and ACTUALLY not vote for Biden and this will be the same thing as voting for Trump in that the result of Trump winning will be the same.