The Democrats need to get a whole hell of a lot tougher on messaging. Biden needs to stand in front of crowds and cameras and call Trump exactly what he is: a traitor, a criminal and a dangerous Russian asset. Fuck statesmanship at this point. Trump should have never, ever been able to get this close to the presidency again, yet here we are.
It's not enough to just be quietly polite when your opponent wants to destroy the rule of law and order. I'm so entirely sick of watching as the Democrats blow opportunity after opportunity to win big.
The bases for the two parties are very very different.
It's why Republicans can, with little consequence, call Democrats pedophiles, crooks, etc.
Democrats have a big tent, with a lot of moderates in the base. Moderates, for the most part, see democrats as the paragons of virtue, people who should stand tall while their opponents throw shit at their face and call it confetti.
Moderates won't vote for Democrats if they feel like they can't be polite. They won't vote for Republicans but simply keeping them out of the ballot box is enough for Republicans to win.
The only good way to deal with this is as a SuperPAC. Running attack ads and forcing Republicans to play defense. But remember that conservatives have significant backing from rich assholes and they have their own SuperPACs.
I'll disagree with that, as someone lemmy would classify as a moderate.
We all know the Dems are the only adults in the room. We know they actually want to govern. We accept that the majority of them are corporate shills, but also want to improve things for the people as long as there's not a direct conflict with corporate America.
Most importantly, we recognize that the other party wants to pillage this country and burn down everything and hand it over to the filthy rich.
If the Dems got into petty attacks on Republicans, you would not lose moderate voters. You may lose more Progressives, but let's be honest, all it takes is one wedge issue to lose Progressives. They are not a vote worth pursuing. It's getting more of the red vote, or at least creating voter apathy in the Right by branding all their politicians as the absolute clowns they are.
20 years ago, I would say you were right. Being respectable was a draw. But actions speak louder than words, and the Republican's actions for the last decade have been absolutely vile. Rhetoric won't change that.
If the Dems got into petty attacks on Republicans, you would not lose moderate voters. You may lose more Progressives
hard disagree. every progressive I know is ready for a dirty fucking fight.
but let's be honest, all it takes is one wedge issue to lose Progressives. They are not a vote worth pursuing
and this advice, fellow internet peeps, is how you lose elections to fascists.
I consider myself a progressive, and I want that fight. I want the Democrats to show some spine.
exactly. the only ones that have shown spine in the Democratic caucus thus far have been progressives.
people mistake activism to move the party in a better direction as "peeling off progressives over wedge issues". its bullshit.
those same progressives that abhor the current genocidal orgy in Gaza are the same ones that will fight with their lives to protect their socially and poitically vulnerable family, friends and neighbors.
everyone I persoanlly know that self identifies "left" is begging for a goddamn smackdown of these fascists. these are the people that will bring the heat, light and energy at the community level to a depressingly limp Democratic party.
This is exactly what he was saying though, isn't it? Biden literally used the sotu a few weeks ago to publically call them clowns and you just ignored it. You have a narrative in your head you want to be true, so you'll seek out whatever you need to make it that way. It's a waste of time to pursue your vote. It's already decided.
but let’s be honest, all it takes is one wedge issue to lose Progressives. They are not a vote worth pursuing
and this advice, fellow internet peeps, is how you lose elections to fascists.
Uh huh. I guess all those Progressives that refused to vote for Hillary because of the DNC scandal don't count. Or all the progressives, who are very loudly declaring they won't vote for genocide, don't count. Or the california progressives currently decrying Adam Schiff's (checks notes) attack ads on a Republican as actually designed to raise his name recognition so Schiffs progressive opponent would lose to a republican, don't count.
If you think all of the above are ridiculous reasons not to vote Dem in the general election, then you're not the idiotic progressive fringe I'm talking about, and your vote is already secure.
We accept that the majority of them are corporate shills
FYI, you're not a moderate. You're a leftist in denial.
...but let’s be honest, all it takes is one wedge issue to lose Progressives. They are not a vote worth pursuing.
Edit: make that a self-hating leftist in denial.
Actually the corporate news media should be doing that.
Because it's news. and true. and important to upholding democracy. Which is the entire fucking purpose of a free press
That ship sailed with end of the Fairness Doctrine and rules against media cross-ownership.
While I agree with your assessment, I don't think it'll have much of an impact on turn out. Everyone who's paying attention has likely already made up their mind.
What I think we need now is more peer to peer grassroots messaging. Get those who aren't paying enough attention informed and motivated, while not wasting time on trying to -change- minds.
Well I think we agree. It's not about changing minds but getting people fired up enough to go vote. Democrats win when voters show up in large numbers. Those not paying attention need to be given reasons to do so.
The biggest difference someone can make is driving people to the polling places on Election Day for the Democratic Party. GOP voters can walk for all I can, they better get used to it in their Gilead anyways.
I would roll my eyes incredibly hard, but I'm starting to think they need to get into the childish nickname game too. It really sells to that crowd. People are, to this day, still delightfully saying Lets Go Brandon like it's clever.
I will forgive them. There's a large portion of this country that thinks of politics as entertainment and are just interested in drama. Fight fire with fire.
The Democrats need to get a whole hell of a lot tougher on messaging. Biden needs to stand in front of crowds and cameras and call Trump exactly what he is: a traitor, a criminal and a dangerous Russian asset. Fuck statesmanship at this point. Trump should have never, ever been able to get this close to the presidency again, yet here we are.
It's not enough to just be quietly polite when your opponent wants to destroy the rule of law and order. I'm so entirely sick of watching as the Democrats blow opportunity after opportunity to win big.
The bases for the two parties are very very different.
It's why Republicans can, with little consequence, call Democrats pedophiles, crooks, etc.
Democrats have a big tent, with a lot of moderates in the base. Moderates, for the most part, see democrats as the paragons of virtue, people who should stand tall while their opponents throw shit at their face and call it confetti.
Moderates won't vote for Democrats if they feel like they can't be polite. They won't vote for Republicans but simply keeping them out of the ballot box is enough for Republicans to win.
The only good way to deal with this is as a SuperPAC. Running attack ads and forcing Republicans to play defense. But remember that conservatives have significant backing from rich assholes and they have their own SuperPACs.
I'll disagree with that, as someone lemmy would classify as a moderate.
We all know the Dems are the only adults in the room. We know they actually want to govern. We accept that the majority of them are corporate shills, but also want to improve things for the people as long as there's not a direct conflict with corporate America.
Most importantly, we recognize that the other party wants to pillage this country and burn down everything and hand it over to the filthy rich.
If the Dems got into petty attacks on Republicans, you would not lose moderate voters. You may lose more Progressives, but let's be honest, all it takes is one wedge issue to lose Progressives. They are not a vote worth pursuing. It's getting more of the red vote, or at least creating voter apathy in the Right by branding all their politicians as the absolute clowns they are.
20 years ago, I would say you were right. Being respectable was a draw. But actions speak louder than words, and the Republican's actions for the last decade have been absolutely vile. Rhetoric won't change that.
hard disagree. every progressive I know is ready for a dirty fucking fight.
and this advice, fellow internet peeps, is how you lose elections to fascists.
I consider myself a progressive, and I want that fight. I want the Democrats to show some spine.
exactly. the only ones that have shown spine in the Democratic caucus thus far have been progressives.
people mistake activism to move the party in a better direction as "peeling off progressives over wedge issues". its bullshit.
those same progressives that abhor the current genocidal orgy in Gaza are the same ones that will fight with their lives to protect their socially and poitically vulnerable family, friends and neighbors.
everyone I persoanlly know that self identifies "left" is begging for a goddamn smackdown of these fascists. these are the people that will bring the heat, light and energy at the community level to a depressingly limp Democratic party.
This is exactly what he was saying though, isn't it? Biden literally used the sotu a few weeks ago to publically call them clowns and you just ignored it. You have a narrative in your head you want to be true, so you'll seek out whatever you need to make it that way. It's a waste of time to pursue your vote. It's already decided.
Uh huh. I guess all those Progressives that refused to vote for Hillary because of the DNC scandal don't count. Or all the progressives, who are very loudly declaring they won't vote for genocide, don't count. Or the california progressives currently decrying Adam Schiff's (checks notes) attack ads on a Republican as actually designed to raise his name recognition so Schiffs progressive opponent would lose to a republican, don't count.
If you think all of the above are ridiculous reasons not to vote Dem in the general election, then you're not the idiotic progressive fringe I'm talking about, and your vote is already secure.
FYI, you're not a moderate. You're a leftist in denial.
Edit: make that a self-hating leftist in denial.
Actually the corporate news media should be doing that.
Because it's news. and true. and important to upholding democracy. Which is the entire fucking purpose of a free press
That ship sailed with end of the Fairness Doctrine and rules against media cross-ownership.
While I agree with your assessment, I don't think it'll have much of an impact on turn out. Everyone who's paying attention has likely already made up their mind.
What I think we need now is more peer to peer grassroots messaging. Get those who aren't paying enough attention informed and motivated, while not wasting time on trying to -change- minds.
Well I think we agree. It's not about changing minds but getting people fired up enough to go vote. Democrats win when voters show up in large numbers. Those not paying attention need to be given reasons to do so.
The biggest difference someone can make is driving people to the polling places on Election Day for the Democratic Party. GOP voters can walk for all I can, they better get used to it in their Gilead anyways.
I would roll my eyes incredibly hard, but I'm starting to think they need to get into the childish nickname game too. It really sells to that crowd. People are, to this day, still delightfully saying Lets Go Brandon like it's clever.
I will forgive them. There's a large portion of this country that thinks of politics as entertainment and are just interested in drama. Fight fire with fire.