Always love to hear the deep lore. Lemmy’s early development makes a lot more sense now. Good on them(you) to leave everything open and learn from Reddit’s mistakes.
Still, free and open has a limit. No Facebook and no Nazis. That’s just common sense everyone used to have.
The paradox of tolerance is real, and a particularly thorny issue for social networks.
Philosophies that promote intolerance can not be tolerated by tolerant communities.
What happens is the definition of nazi changes to incorporate anyone who disagrees with you.
I have this theory that people who complain about everyone being called nazis, have themselves been called a nazi.
Why do people call you a nazi, hmm?
That's literally never happened, so I can't answer. I'm basically a Marxist, though I'm not especially attached to that as an identity.
Maybe don't parrot nazi talking points then
I'm also a vegetarian, does that make me Hitler? Temper your hysteria.
I've made you aware that claiming the word "nazi" doesn't mean anything anymore is a thing nazis do.
Do with that what you will.
I'm going to the gym!
Cheers!
The word "Nazi" and especially "fascist" have been diluted into "bigot" at best and "person I disagree with" at worst. The right are just as bad with "communist" and "socialist", although with the difference that socialism is a perfectly decent ideology, and even communism isn't as bad as fascism.
Any form of ultranationalist is a nazi. Any questions?
No, but you sound like Jeff Tiedrich 😂
I'm not american, no idea who he is. Google says some musician?
I just know him as the guy who says "any fucking questions" on Twitter, I'm not American either.
Ahh gotcha. I meant it though it wasn't rhetorical, I will answer questions.
No, I'm fine with that definition, that's a sane use of the term. Part of me thinks we'd be better off reserving "nazi" for those who openly align themselves with the historical group and just use the descriptor "ultranationalist" for modern instances of ultranationalism. Might reduce equivocation.
I think the problem there is that a shit load of people are so uneducated that they don't associate nationalism with the nazis, they only associate the holocaust as the bad thing they did and really don't understand that ultranationalist ideology will lead to a repeat of what occurred over and over again. Thus it becomes much easier to just say nazi when referring to these ultranationalists even though it's technically incorrect when the ultranationalism they support is actually polish, or american, or fucking italian, idk etc etc etc. They're all have pretty much the same goals just in a different set of completely made up lines on a map.
So you admit that Antifa are as Nazis like Maga are? Or are rightoids worse for some arbitrary reason again?
Antifa are not ultranationalists. The vast majority are anarchists and communists, which are internationalist ideologies. Literally the polar opposite.
You could call them an authoritarian paramilitary group, but they're not nazis. That doesn't automatically make them good, it's just that nazism is a specific political ideology.
Half of them are anarchists, calling them authoritarian is a grandpa’s facebook-tier understanding of the situation
I've yet to meet an anarchist following anything like a coherent ideology in that respect. They all seem very eager to impose themselves on others. I suppose one guy took a more academic position, but still seemed to idolise violence. Maybe the authority is decentralised, but frequently wielded as explicit force. Not far from libertarianism in that regard. Doesn't appeal.
What is your solution to prevent nazi rallies?
Cluster munitions, for all I care. What's that got to do with anything? I was explaining my use of the word authoritarian. I'd make them illegal, if I were in a position to do so. But my place in society is installing irrigation and water management systems, I have to focus on that.
[reposting this comment, last one apparently never made it over to lemmy.world]
What’s that got to do with anything?
Stopping nazi rallies is the main thing antifa does. You seem to oppose them doing it.
I’d make them illegal, if I were in a position to do so
But you’re not. None of us are. So that leaves what other options?
No, I didn't say that. Perhaps you're thinking of somebody further up the comment chain.
test comment to see if this shows up, the other comment doesn’t
What a pointless question though. Obviously in the context 'Nazi' means what it means NOW.
'Peadophiles should be locked up'
'ah but what if the definition of Peadophile changes to incorporate anyone who has sex??'
When I asked that I ended up with more than -100 and comments like "oh so you defend them".
"I like waffles."
"Oh, so you hate pancakes!"
Yes, in fact I'm calling for the centrally-organised, systematic eradication of pancakes from the breakfast menu. That's what I mean when I say I like waffles.
The fact that you people can't see how distasteful it is to compare the fucking Nazis to breakfast foods in a cute way, says everything anyone needs to know about you.
Comparing mere assholes to Nazis is antisemitic, much less comparing anyone who disagrees with you to Nazis.
You're young, you'll weather with time. We're all just trying to get along.
My guy, you have no idea how old I am.
Weather into what? If you're trying to suggest the old, "you'll get more conservative as you get older and start paying taxes," then I can just stop you right there because it's been several decades now, and I'm only going in the opposite direction. The last few years have pretty much radicalized me against capitalism, and pushed me further left than I've been my entire adult life.
But any day now, right?
If that wasn't what you meant, then you can disregard.
Not what I meant - I've also become more left-wing with age. Particularly with regard to class stratification. But I also put a lot more effort into getting along with people, at least in real life.
Not really sure what you meant then. I don't think I'll ever think it's OK to compare the holocaust to removing a breakfast item from the menu.
Isn’t “sneed” mostly a 4chan joke these days? Seeing it in someone’s username always makes me squint
No idea, I don't use 4chan. It can produce funny content, but I don't think I could stand to wade through the shit. It's a legacy username, it's mine and I cherish it.
Yes, it didn't take long for somebody to accuse me of being a literal nazi. Those are odd people, though. Don't tend to meet them in the real world, only on the internet.
Always love to hear the deep lore. Lemmy’s early development makes a lot more sense now. Good on them(you) to leave everything open and learn from Reddit’s mistakes.
Still, free and open has a limit. No Facebook and no Nazis. That’s just common sense everyone used to have.
The paradox of tolerance is real, and a particularly thorny issue for social networks.
Philosophies that promote intolerance can not be tolerated by tolerant communities.
What happens is the definition of nazi changes to incorporate anyone who disagrees with you.
I have this theory that people who complain about everyone being called nazis, have themselves been called a nazi.
Why do people call you a nazi, hmm?
That's literally never happened, so I can't answer. I'm basically a Marxist, though I'm not especially attached to that as an identity.
Maybe don't parrot nazi talking points then
I'm also a vegetarian, does that make me Hitler? Temper your hysteria.
I've made you aware that claiming the word "nazi" doesn't mean anything anymore is a thing nazis do.
Do with that what you will.
I'm going to the gym!
Cheers!
The word "Nazi" and especially "fascist" have been diluted into "bigot" at best and "person I disagree with" at worst. The right are just as bad with "communist" and "socialist", although with the difference that socialism is a perfectly decent ideology, and even communism isn't as bad as fascism.
Any form of ultranationalist is a nazi. Any questions?
No, but you sound like Jeff Tiedrich 😂
I'm not american, no idea who he is. Google says some musician?
I just know him as the guy who says "any fucking questions" on Twitter, I'm not American either.
Ahh gotcha. I meant it though it wasn't rhetorical, I will answer questions.
No, I'm fine with that definition, that's a sane use of the term. Part of me thinks we'd be better off reserving "nazi" for those who openly align themselves with the historical group and just use the descriptor "ultranationalist" for modern instances of ultranationalism. Might reduce equivocation.
I think the problem there is that a shit load of people are so uneducated that they don't associate nationalism with the nazis, they only associate the holocaust as the bad thing they did and really don't understand that ultranationalist ideology will lead to a repeat of what occurred over and over again. Thus it becomes much easier to just say nazi when referring to these ultranationalists even though it's technically incorrect when the ultranationalism they support is actually polish, or american, or fucking italian, idk etc etc etc. They're all have pretty much the same goals just in a different set of completely made up lines on a map.
So you admit that Antifa are as Nazis like Maga are? Or are rightoids worse for some arbitrary reason again?
Antifa are not ultranationalists. The vast majority are anarchists and communists, which are internationalist ideologies. Literally the polar opposite.
You could call them an authoritarian paramilitary group, but they're not nazis. That doesn't automatically make them good, it's just that nazism is a specific political ideology.
Half of them are anarchists, calling them authoritarian is a grandpa’s facebook-tier understanding of the situation
I've yet to meet an anarchist following anything like a coherent ideology in that respect. They all seem very eager to impose themselves on others. I suppose one guy took a more academic position, but still seemed to idolise violence. Maybe the authority is decentralised, but frequently wielded as explicit force. Not far from libertarianism in that regard. Doesn't appeal.
What is your solution to prevent nazi rallies?
Cluster munitions, for all I care. What's that got to do with anything? I was explaining my use of the word authoritarian. I'd make them illegal, if I were in a position to do so. But my place in society is installing irrigation and water management systems, I have to focus on that.
[reposting this comment, last one apparently never made it over to lemmy.world]
Stopping nazi rallies is the main thing antifa does. You seem to oppose them doing it.
But you’re not. None of us are. So that leaves what other options?
No, I didn't say that. Perhaps you're thinking of somebody further up the comment chain.
test comment to see if this shows up, the other comment doesn’t
What a pointless question though. Obviously in the context 'Nazi' means what it means NOW.
'Peadophiles should be locked up' 'ah but what if the definition of Peadophile changes to incorporate anyone who has sex??'
When I asked that I ended up with more than -100 and comments like "oh so you defend them".
"I like waffles."
"Oh, so you hate pancakes!"
Yes, in fact I'm calling for the centrally-organised, systematic eradication of pancakes from the breakfast menu. That's what I mean when I say I like waffles.
The fact that you people can't see how distasteful it is to compare the fucking Nazis to breakfast foods in a cute way, says everything anyone needs to know about you.
Comparing mere assholes to Nazis is antisemitic, much less comparing anyone who disagrees with you to Nazis.
You're young, you'll weather with time. We're all just trying to get along.
My guy, you have no idea how old I am.
Weather into what? If you're trying to suggest the old, "you'll get more conservative as you get older and start paying taxes," then I can just stop you right there because it's been several decades now, and I'm only going in the opposite direction. The last few years have pretty much radicalized me against capitalism, and pushed me further left than I've been my entire adult life.
But any day now, right?
If that wasn't what you meant, then you can disregard.
Not what I meant - I've also become more left-wing with age. Particularly with regard to class stratification. But I also put a lot more effort into getting along with people, at least in real life.
Not really sure what you meant then. I don't think I'll ever think it's OK to compare the holocaust to removing a breakfast item from the menu.
Isn’t “sneed” mostly a 4chan joke these days? Seeing it in someone’s username always makes me squint
No idea, I don't use 4chan. It can produce funny content, but I don't think I could stand to wade through the shit. It's a legacy username, it's mine and I cherish it.
Yes, it didn't take long for somebody to accuse me of being a literal nazi. Those are odd people, though. Don't tend to meet them in the real world, only on the internet.
An actual "called it" moment.