You don't fix our fptp system by throwing away your vote for POTUS. For even if it magically works, and a third party wins, it will just quickly revert back to two parties. It solves nothing and is just a dumb vanity vote. The POTUS vote now is a strategic one.
If you want to fix the system, you work from the bottom up to get the way we vote changed.
strategic voting is what leads to party consolidation.
Yes, humans acting rationally in a fptp system is what leads to a two party system. This is exactly the point. Or are you arguing that people should just vote randomly?
being locked into a two-party system is not rational.
Agreed. But that really has nothing to do with the point; it's not a "lock" it's just what is going to happen when people act rationally.
You don't fix FPTP with blind loyalty either. That gets you where we are, right back in the gilded age.
I said nothing about blind loyalty, only about strategically using your vote in the presidential election.
Yet you demand it so stridently.
Vote strategically = you must be loyal
I guess. Lol
Funny how it always turns out you have to hold your nose and vote for the "correct" person even if you vehemently disagree with them.
If you want change here, it comes from the bottom up. But likely the most effort you want to put in is vainly checking the box next to a third party for POTUS: no effort but you can fool yourself into believing you've made a statement.
You guys always say that as a way to dismiss criticism. But I find the people who aren't willing to vote for genocide are more activated. We're marching and organizing. This isn't 2020 with the green party or libertarians. We aren't trying to get Jill Stein elected. We're trying to tell the democrats they can't take us for granted.
I've said nothing about you criticizing anyone.
This is the second time you've grossly misrepresented my point.
Why do you feel the need to be so dishonest in "defense" if your position?
Are you multiple people posting from the same account? Did you check the thread?
Where did I say anything about you not being allowed to criticize anyone? It's sounds like you are accusing me of being multiple people because other posters have made some argument that I did not... Which is quite frankly nuts.
People have been saying this for over 40+ years and liberals have lead the direction of the party with no results for working class people. If there was ever a time to show you're not locked into the duopoly now would be the time between two genocidal old men. People would suck it up and vote for Biden if at least attempted to show some backbone and stand for something. But every time he gets the chance he just works with Right Wingers on some bipartisan bs adopting their policies and direction.
You completely ignored my point and just reiterated the same talking points.
If you want to change the system, it's not done by voting for a third party for POTUS. As I said, doing so is just vanity and does nothing to fix the problem. The problem is solved at the grassroots level.
You don't like the rules, neither do I. But the solution to changing the rules is not to not play the game, but to work to change the rules where the rule changes actually happen. Not playing the game just helps the least desirable team win.
Nobody has said to skip the work of working from the bottom in state and local elections. People do support those campaigns and even when they do they have to fight against Dems and GOP locking them out of being choices there as well. The infinite loop of picking the nicer fascist isn't doing anything as well.
The infinite loop of picking the nicer fascist isn’t doing anything as well.
That's the whole point: your goal to change how we can reasonably vote in the POTUS vote, does not happen when electing the POTUS, so expecting electing the POTUS to change this makes no sense.
It has to come from elsewhere. While I strong disagree with the classification, you're stuck voting for the "nicer fascist" less you end up with the worse fascist.
The US has also been an inherently conservative country for 40+ years, and it is only just now gaining a substantial left wing presence.
It is only since the Internet went wide that leftists in the US have been able to get unbiased attention. We were always here, but it's hard when even MSNBC compared your ideas to dictators in the 1990's and 2000's before jumping on the bandwagon (but only if private corporations can get their middle man profiteering on).
You don't fix our fptp system by throwing away your vote for POTUS. For even if it magically works, and a third party wins, it will just quickly revert back to two parties. It solves nothing and is just a dumb vanity vote. The POTUS vote now is a strategic one.
If you want to fix the system, you work from the bottom up to get the way we vote changed.
strategic voting is what leads to party consolidation.
Yes, humans acting rationally in a fptp system is what leads to a two party system. This is exactly the point. Or are you arguing that people should just vote randomly?
being locked into a two-party system is not rational.
Agreed. But that really has nothing to do with the point; it's not a "lock" it's just what is going to happen when people act rationally.
You don't fix FPTP with blind loyalty either. That gets you where we are, right back in the gilded age.
I said nothing about blind loyalty, only about strategically using your vote in the presidential election.
Yet you demand it so stridently.
Vote strategically = you must be loyal
I guess. Lol
Funny how it always turns out you have to hold your nose and vote for the "correct" person even if you vehemently disagree with them.
If you want change here, it comes from the bottom up. But likely the most effort you want to put in is vainly checking the box next to a third party for POTUS: no effort but you can fool yourself into believing you've made a statement.
You guys always say that as a way to dismiss criticism. But I find the people who aren't willing to vote for genocide are more activated. We're marching and organizing. This isn't 2020 with the green party or libertarians. We aren't trying to get Jill Stein elected. We're trying to tell the democrats they can't take us for granted.
I've said nothing about you criticizing anyone.
This is the second time you've grossly misrepresented my point.
Why do you feel the need to be so dishonest in "defense" if your position?
Are you multiple people posting from the same account? Did you check the thread?
Where did I say anything about you not being allowed to criticize anyone? It's sounds like you are accusing me of being multiple people because other posters have made some argument that I did not... Which is quite frankly nuts.
People have been saying this for over 40+ years and liberals have lead the direction of the party with no results for working class people. If there was ever a time to show you're not locked into the duopoly now would be the time between two genocidal old men. People would suck it up and vote for Biden if at least attempted to show some backbone and stand for something. But every time he gets the chance he just works with Right Wingers on some bipartisan bs adopting their policies and direction.
You completely ignored my point and just reiterated the same talking points.
If you want to change the system, it's not done by voting for a third party for POTUS. As I said, doing so is just vanity and does nothing to fix the problem. The problem is solved at the grassroots level.
You don't like the rules, neither do I. But the solution to changing the rules is not to not play the game, but to work to change the rules where the rule changes actually happen. Not playing the game just helps the least desirable team win.
Nobody has said to skip the work of working from the bottom in state and local elections. People do support those campaigns and even when they do they have to fight against Dems and GOP locking them out of being choices there as well. The infinite loop of picking the nicer fascist isn't doing anything as well.
That's the whole point: your goal to change how we can reasonably vote in the POTUS vote, does not happen when electing the POTUS, so expecting electing the POTUS to change this makes no sense.
It has to come from elsewhere. While I strong disagree with the classification, you're stuck voting for the "nicer fascist" less you end up with the worse fascist.
The US has also been an inherently conservative country for 40+ years, and it is only just now gaining a substantial left wing presence.
It is only since the Internet went wide that leftists in the US have been able to get unbiased attention. We were always here, but it's hard when even MSNBC compared your ideas to dictators in the 1990's and 2000's before jumping on the bandwagon (but only if private corporations can get their middle man profiteering on).