Trump is worse. This doesn't paint Biden any better for standing by spectating people's bloodlines being wiped away. You can yell at leftists all you want. The infinite loop of comprising your morals got people here not people wanting to change direction for something better. "We can vote Biden then focus on the next election for something better." We all heard that one before.
You don't fix our fptp system by throwing away your vote for POTUS. For even if it magically works, and a third party wins, it will just quickly revert back to two parties. It solves nothing and is just a dumb vanity vote. The POTUS vote now is a strategic one.
If you want to fix the system, you work from the bottom up to get the way we vote changed.
strategic voting is what leads to party consolidation.
Yes, humans acting rationally in a fptp system is what leads to a two party system. This is exactly the point. Or are you arguing that people should just vote randomly?
being locked into a two-party system is not rational.
Agreed. But that really has nothing to do with the point; it's not a "lock" it's just what is going to happen when people act rationally.
You don't fix FPTP with blind loyalty either. That gets you where we are, right back in the gilded age.
I said nothing about blind loyalty, only about strategically using your vote in the presidential election.
Yet you demand it so stridently.
Vote strategically = you must be loyal
I guess. Lol
Funny how it always turns out you have to hold your nose and vote for the "correct" person even if you vehemently disagree with them.
If you want change here, it comes from the bottom up. But likely the most effort you want to put in is vainly checking the box next to a third party for POTUS: no effort but you can fool yourself into believing you've made a statement.
You guys always say that as a way to dismiss criticism. But I find the people who aren't willing to vote for genocide are more activated. We're marching and organizing. This isn't 2020 with the green party or libertarians. We aren't trying to get Jill Stein elected. We're trying to tell the democrats they can't take us for granted.
I've said nothing about you criticizing anyone.
This is the second time you've grossly misrepresented my point.
Why do you feel the need to be so dishonest in "defense" if your position?
Are you multiple people posting from the same account? Did you check the thread?
Where did I say anything about you not being allowed to criticize anyone? It's sounds like you are accusing me of being multiple people because other posters have made some argument that I did not... Which is quite frankly nuts.
People have been saying this for over 40+ years and liberals have lead the direction of the party with no results for working class people. If there was ever a time to show you're not locked into the duopoly now would be the time between two genocidal old men. People would suck it up and vote for Biden if at least attempted to show some backbone and stand for something. But every time he gets the chance he just works with Right Wingers on some bipartisan bs adopting their policies and direction.
You completely ignored my point and just reiterated the same talking points.
If you want to change the system, it's not done by voting for a third party for POTUS. As I said, doing so is just vanity and does nothing to fix the problem. The problem is solved at the grassroots level.
You don't like the rules, neither do I. But the solution to changing the rules is not to not play the game, but to work to change the rules where the rule changes actually happen. Not playing the game just helps the least desirable team win.
Nobody has said to skip the work of working from the bottom in state and local elections. People do support those campaigns and even when they do they have to fight against Dems and GOP locking them out of being choices there as well. The infinite loop of picking the nicer fascist isn't doing anything as well.
The infinite loop of picking the nicer fascist isn’t doing anything as well.
That's the whole point: your goal to change how we can reasonably vote in the POTUS vote, does not happen when electing the POTUS, so expecting electing the POTUS to change this makes no sense.
It has to come from elsewhere. While I strong disagree with the classification, you're stuck voting for the "nicer fascist" less you end up with the worse fascist.
The US has also been an inherently conservative country for 40+ years, and it is only just now gaining a substantial left wing presence.
It is only since the Internet went wide that leftists in the US have been able to get unbiased attention. We were always here, but it's hard when even MSNBC compared your ideas to dictators in the 1990's and 2000's before jumping on the bandwagon (but only if private corporations can get their middle man profiteering on).
You're thinking of things wrong and it's leading you to silly conclusions.
Voting for president is not about voting for the person that will solve of our problems.
Stop looking to the state to solve our problems, that is not it's purpose, it does not have this ability.
Real problems are solved by people.
Voting for U.S. president is a strategic choice we're allowed every four years, choose the option that makes your life and/or job easier. If you're really concerned about genocide, choose the option for president that will make your job of anti-war activist easier and safer.
Understand that many of your anti-war allies are LGBTQ, and that if Trump wins, he is almost certainly going to make it much harder for your allies to survive, let alone be activists. Why would you throw your allies under the bus to make an ideological point like 16 people on Lemmy will see?
I don't know about them but I don't care about 16 people on Lemmy. I care about 16 people in charge of the democrats. I want them to see they cannot hold power without the left.
I want them to see they cannot hold power without the left.
Ok, I get that, but if the Democrats don't win, who does? Obviously the Republicans right? Is that an improvement? If Republicans destroy democracy (as they have been crystal clear about), what use is sending messages relevant to electoral politics?
If we can only vote for one party then democracy is already dead. Then what's the point of voting at all?
The point of voting is not to choose the candidate that will fix everything and give up if there isn't one, it's to choose the the option that will make your life easier, even if just a little. If you want the world to be a better place, one candidate will make your job risky and dangerous by putting left wingers in prison and supporting right wing violence, the other wont. Why make your life/job harder because you're upset or frustrated? Why harm your LGBTQ comrades with your apathy?
Genocide
Trump: Yes
Biden: Yes
Make life hell for LGBTQ at home in the U.S.
Trump: Yes
Biden: No
The Democrats"fix" less and less every time we elect them. The bus isn't going towards any stops I want to take. It's going the other way, following the red line. I've tried filing complaints but they just go into the void. So I think it's time for a new bus.
So I think it’s time for a new bus.
Me too, but jumping off a running bus onto flaming mini van full idiots isn't going to help anyone.
Everything you hate about Biden is still going to be there under Trump only worse, and Trump is the only other option at this moment. You want better choices in the future, run for office, encourage people to run for office. As long as people like you are encouraging good people to forfeit electoral politics, only the worst people are going to be available as options to vote for.
We already had our chances at good people. The Democrats kept that from happening. At this point I'm really starting to believe the only choice is to back up, and protest how we elect presidents in the first place. It doesn't seem to produce a representative of the people. And the more people tell me I have to vote for Biden because of Boogeyman, the more sure I am.
At this point I’m really starting to believe the only choice is to back up, and protest how we elect presidents in the first place. It doesn’t seem to produce a representative of the people.
Again, you're right, how we elect presidents is fucked up and needs to change. Is making that change going to be easier under Trump? Because that's who's going to be president if Biden loses. Is changing how we elect presidents going to be easier when anyone willing to be an activist to accomplish it gets arrested? You think protest arrests are bad now, just wait until an actual fascist is in charge and your friends start disappearing.
People are getting arrested now. And we already dealt with people disappearing. Look up Homan Square.
The stuff you are threatening us with is already happening.
That's what I mean, a few people being disappeared in a particularly crazy summer of nationwide protests years ago is way better than it being the norm for anyone that doesn't agree with the Trump admin.
Do you not understand degrees of harm and think that since Biden isn't a perfect communist than he is no different than an full on fascist dictatorship? Do you hate you mom like Hitler if she doesn't give you Cheetos for dinner?
Trump is worse. This doesn't paint Biden any better for standing by spectating people's bloodlines being wiped away. You can yell at leftists all you want. The infinite loop of comprising your morals got people here not people wanting to change direction for something better. "We can vote Biden then focus on the next election for something better." We all heard that one before.
You don't fix our fptp system by throwing away your vote for POTUS. For even if it magically works, and a third party wins, it will just quickly revert back to two parties. It solves nothing and is just a dumb vanity vote. The POTUS vote now is a strategic one.
If you want to fix the system, you work from the bottom up to get the way we vote changed.
strategic voting is what leads to party consolidation.
Yes, humans acting rationally in a fptp system is what leads to a two party system. This is exactly the point. Or are you arguing that people should just vote randomly?
being locked into a two-party system is not rational.
Agreed. But that really has nothing to do with the point; it's not a "lock" it's just what is going to happen when people act rationally.
You don't fix FPTP with blind loyalty either. That gets you where we are, right back in the gilded age.
I said nothing about blind loyalty, only about strategically using your vote in the presidential election.
Yet you demand it so stridently.
Vote strategically = you must be loyal
I guess. Lol
Funny how it always turns out you have to hold your nose and vote for the "correct" person even if you vehemently disagree with them.
If you want change here, it comes from the bottom up. But likely the most effort you want to put in is vainly checking the box next to a third party for POTUS: no effort but you can fool yourself into believing you've made a statement.
You guys always say that as a way to dismiss criticism. But I find the people who aren't willing to vote for genocide are more activated. We're marching and organizing. This isn't 2020 with the green party or libertarians. We aren't trying to get Jill Stein elected. We're trying to tell the democrats they can't take us for granted.
I've said nothing about you criticizing anyone.
This is the second time you've grossly misrepresented my point.
Why do you feel the need to be so dishonest in "defense" if your position?
Are you multiple people posting from the same account? Did you check the thread?
Where did I say anything about you not being allowed to criticize anyone? It's sounds like you are accusing me of being multiple people because other posters have made some argument that I did not... Which is quite frankly nuts.
People have been saying this for over 40+ years and liberals have lead the direction of the party with no results for working class people. If there was ever a time to show you're not locked into the duopoly now would be the time between two genocidal old men. People would suck it up and vote for Biden if at least attempted to show some backbone and stand for something. But every time he gets the chance he just works with Right Wingers on some bipartisan bs adopting their policies and direction.
You completely ignored my point and just reiterated the same talking points.
If you want to change the system, it's not done by voting for a third party for POTUS. As I said, doing so is just vanity and does nothing to fix the problem. The problem is solved at the grassroots level.
You don't like the rules, neither do I. But the solution to changing the rules is not to not play the game, but to work to change the rules where the rule changes actually happen. Not playing the game just helps the least desirable team win.
Nobody has said to skip the work of working from the bottom in state and local elections. People do support those campaigns and even when they do they have to fight against Dems and GOP locking them out of being choices there as well. The infinite loop of picking the nicer fascist isn't doing anything as well.
That's the whole point: your goal to change how we can reasonably vote in the POTUS vote, does not happen when electing the POTUS, so expecting electing the POTUS to change this makes no sense.
It has to come from elsewhere. While I strong disagree with the classification, you're stuck voting for the "nicer fascist" less you end up with the worse fascist.
The US has also been an inherently conservative country for 40+ years, and it is only just now gaining a substantial left wing presence.
It is only since the Internet went wide that leftists in the US have been able to get unbiased attention. We were always here, but it's hard when even MSNBC compared your ideas to dictators in the 1990's and 2000's before jumping on the bandwagon (but only if private corporations can get their middle man profiteering on).
You're thinking of things wrong and it's leading you to silly conclusions.
Voting for president is not about voting for the person that will solve of our problems.
Stop looking to the state to solve our problems, that is not it's purpose, it does not have this ability.
Real problems are solved by people.
Voting for U.S. president is a strategic choice we're allowed every four years, choose the option that makes your life and/or job easier. If you're really concerned about genocide, choose the option for president that will make your job of anti-war activist easier and safer.
Understand that many of your anti-war allies are LGBTQ, and that if Trump wins, he is almost certainly going to make it much harder for your allies to survive, let alone be activists. Why would you throw your allies under the bus to make an ideological point like 16 people on Lemmy will see?
I don't know about them but I don't care about 16 people on Lemmy. I care about 16 people in charge of the democrats. I want them to see they cannot hold power without the left.
Ok, I get that, but if the Democrats don't win, who does? Obviously the Republicans right? Is that an improvement? If Republicans destroy democracy (as they have been crystal clear about), what use is sending messages relevant to electoral politics?
If we can only vote for one party then democracy is already dead. Then what's the point of voting at all?
The point of voting is not to choose the candidate that will fix everything and give up if there isn't one, it's to choose the the option that will make your life easier, even if just a little. If you want the world to be a better place, one candidate will make your job risky and dangerous by putting left wingers in prison and supporting right wing violence, the other wont. Why make your life/job harder because you're upset or frustrated? Why harm your LGBTQ comrades with your apathy?
Genocide Trump: Yes Biden: Yes
Make life hell for LGBTQ at home in the U.S. Trump: Yes Biden: No
The Democrats"fix" less and less every time we elect them. The bus isn't going towards any stops I want to take. It's going the other way, following the red line. I've tried filing complaints but they just go into the void. So I think it's time for a new bus.
Me too, but jumping off a running bus onto flaming mini van full idiots isn't going to help anyone.
Everything you hate about Biden is still going to be there under Trump only worse, and Trump is the only other option at this moment. You want better choices in the future, run for office, encourage people to run for office. As long as people like you are encouraging good people to forfeit electoral politics, only the worst people are going to be available as options to vote for.
We already had our chances at good people. The Democrats kept that from happening. At this point I'm really starting to believe the only choice is to back up, and protest how we elect presidents in the first place. It doesn't seem to produce a representative of the people. And the more people tell me I have to vote for Biden because of Boogeyman, the more sure I am.
Again, you're right, how we elect presidents is fucked up and needs to change. Is making that change going to be easier under Trump? Because that's who's going to be president if Biden loses. Is changing how we elect presidents going to be easier when anyone willing to be an activist to accomplish it gets arrested? You think protest arrests are bad now, just wait until an actual fascist is in charge and your friends start disappearing.
People are getting arrested now. And we already dealt with people disappearing. Look up Homan Square.
The stuff you are threatening us with is already happening.
That's what I mean, a few people being disappeared in a particularly crazy summer of nationwide protests years ago is way better than it being the norm for anyone that doesn't agree with the Trump admin.
Do you not understand degrees of harm and think that since Biden isn't a perfect communist than he is no different than an full on fascist dictatorship? Do you hate you mom like Hitler if she doesn't give you Cheetos for dinner?
You didn't look up Homan Square.