You shall make no idols to yourselves; and you shall not set up for yourselves graven images, or a memorial pillar. And you shall not set up any image of stone in your land in order to bow down to it. For I am Jehovah your God.
He went pretty ape shit about the golden cow—as believable any part of that story goes. Catholics seem to be all about idoloc knick-knacks and getting all stabby and controlling over them... Like, the opposite of what a Christian is meant to do.
That's one of the fundamental disagreements between Catholics and Protestants.
A Catholic would argue that veneration of saints isn't worship, it's showing respect for someone who exemplified Christian ideals, or died as a martyr. Canonization is basically the religious version of the Medal of Honor.
A Protestant would argue that the distinction between veneration and worship is arbitrary, and veneration of a saint essentially amounts to idolatry anyway.
As an apostate, I don't really see a difference, but it feels inconsistent to see people praying to a specific Saint all the time. Are they supposed to be the middle man between you and God? Didn't Jesus die specifically for that?
Are they supposed to be the middle man between you and God?
Yes
Didn't Jesus die specifically for that?
Uhh, not exactly. I think catholic god sealed heaven off after Adam and eve did the thing. Jesus came down and died to fix everything and open heaven back up. I assume the waiting room was getting full. He also died for all sins ever, but you are still born with original sin and have to go to confession etc.
Asking saints to intercede is just asking for personal bullshit. Different saints were known for different things, so being experts on those things they would be the best to hand your prayer based on that thing to God.
If I die and find out the universe really works this way, I will renounce all of existence and opt out. I rather an eternity not existing over living in a stupid children's book universe of weird arbitrary rules about who gets to do what and go where through these systems of hierarchy.
The way it was explained to me, praying to a Saint to speak to God on your behalf is like asking a friend to pray for you. You could just pray to God yourself, but for some reason, having more people pray for you is better.
And here I am over here, an agnostic absurdist, just laughing at the silly monkeys.
Have you read the pincipia discordia?
When Luther brought that up it started a global trade/religious war that last over 100 years.
Ideas are a life and death matter since people are willing to kill over them. Never underestimate the religious, they are as dangerous as they are stupid.
I think that's what a lot of people miss is the trade/political aspect of schism. While I'm sure millions held genuine beliefs, it's hard to understate the economic reality of the church in those days. Huge land holdings, an ancient web of power and obligations reaching into every life, every transaction, every political appointment. When it became conceivable to break with this system, it was broken. This breaking was Consequential. Hence the centuries of warfare and strife. It's all about that money honey.
I’m a secular person now but as a formally very religious person I know a bad Bible translation when I see it.
Assuming you a referring to Leviticus 26:1 a better translation from the NIV is:
Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.
Given this I can see how Catholics can justify having statues and art and the like.
In case you don’t like the NIV here is a meta comparison.
Ah, we were taught to avoid the NIV as it was like the Merrium-Webster of translation; a bit more adapted for the modern Pentecost, so obviously it would be lenient compared to traditional translations.
You’re not wrong. NIV is very generic. Lol.
The thing that stands out to me in the translation you have is making idles to yourself. Instead of for yourself. That and using the term Jehovah. Those to me are major pointers to using the NWT, which among the Christian diaspora is seen as less reputable.
But saints are not gods, they are more like emissaries. You pray for them to bring your word to God.
But in the end, religious beliefs don't make sense anyway, so why bother analyzing contradictions. Faith is based on believing without needing proof, so any logic reasoning against religion fails against that statement.
He went pretty ape shit about the golden cow—as believable any part of that story goes. Catholics seem to be all about idoloc knick-knacks and getting all stabby and controlling over them... Like, the opposite of what a Christian is meant to do.
That's one of the fundamental disagreements between Catholics and Protestants.
A Catholic would argue that veneration of saints isn't worship, it's showing respect for someone who exemplified Christian ideals, or died as a martyr. Canonization is basically the religious version of the Medal of Honor.
A Protestant would argue that the distinction between veneration and worship is arbitrary, and veneration of a saint essentially amounts to idolatry anyway.
As an apostate, I don't really see a difference, but it feels inconsistent to see people praying to a specific Saint all the time. Are they supposed to be the middle man between you and God? Didn't Jesus die specifically for that?
Yes
Uhh, not exactly. I think catholic god sealed heaven off after Adam and eve did the thing. Jesus came down and died to fix everything and open heaven back up. I assume the waiting room was getting full. He also died for all sins ever, but you are still born with original sin and have to go to confession etc.
Asking saints to intercede is just asking for personal bullshit. Different saints were known for different things, so being experts on those things they would be the best to hand your prayer based on that thing to God.
If I die and find out the universe really works this way, I will renounce all of existence and opt out. I rather an eternity not existing over living in a stupid children's book universe of weird arbitrary rules about who gets to do what and go where through these systems of hierarchy.
The way it was explained to me, praying to a Saint to speak to God on your behalf is like asking a friend to pray for you. You could just pray to God yourself, but for some reason, having more people pray for you is better.
And here I am over here, an agnostic absurdist, just laughing at the silly monkeys.
Have you read the pincipia discordia?
When Luther brought that up it started a global trade/religious war that last over 100 years.
Ideas are a life and death matter since people are willing to kill over them. Never underestimate the religious, they are as dangerous as they are stupid.
I think that's what a lot of people miss is the trade/political aspect of schism. While I'm sure millions held genuine beliefs, it's hard to understate the economic reality of the church in those days. Huge land holdings, an ancient web of power and obligations reaching into every life, every transaction, every political appointment. When it became conceivable to break with this system, it was broken. This breaking was Consequential. Hence the centuries of warfare and strife. It's all about that money honey.
I’m a secular person now but as a formally very religious person I know a bad Bible translation when I see it.
Assuming you a referring to Leviticus 26:1 a better translation from the NIV is:
Given this I can see how Catholics can justify having statues and art and the like.
In case you don’t like the NIV here is a meta comparison.
https://biblehub.com/leviticus/26-1.htm
Ah, we were taught to avoid the NIV as it was like the Merrium-Webster of translation; a bit more adapted for the modern Pentecost, so obviously it would be lenient compared to traditional translations.
You’re not wrong. NIV is very generic. Lol.
The thing that stands out to me in the translation you have is making idles to yourself. Instead of for yourself. That and using the term Jehovah. Those to me are major pointers to using the NWT, which among the Christian diaspora is seen as less reputable.
But saints are not gods, they are more like emissaries. You pray for them to bring your word to God.
But in the end, religious beliefs don't make sense anyway, so why bother analyzing contradictions. Faith is based on believing without needing proof, so any logic reasoning against religion fails against that statement.