Look, you're not really wrong, but you get that this shit is why people get irritated with vegans right? We were talking about being wasteful with energy resources for the sake of capitalism and you came in with a lazy segue to animal rights and nutritional health.
It's a conversation that we should be having, but it's also insufferable to constantly be shoehorning it into every conversation.
I don't agree. The comment points out the single most effektive move an individal without political nor financial power can make to cut personal co2-emissions with just a change of habit. It's not about veganism, animal rights or your health, it's just about sanity. Us still eating meat even though we know better is an incredibly dumb waste of energy for the sake of pleasure, exactly like this shitty powereating globe.
As long as >95% of the global population still consumes meat I understand the urge to bring this topic everywhere.
Oh, you're one of those "you can save the planet with your personal habits" people...
You enjoy your salad. I'm wondering what it takes to firebomb an oil refinery.
And you are one of those "every problem on the planet is the fault of someone else other than me so I can do whatever I want with no regard for it's affect on anyone else" people. Stay away from us if you can't be bothered to carry your own weight, you just drag down people who actually give a shit about something other than their own immediate selfish gratification.
you are one of those "every problem on the planet is the fault of someone else other than me..."
Yes.
There are things in your power to change and things out of your power to change. What you are doing is sadly trying to excuse yourself from doing what you can do because of the existence of things you can't. It's absolutely because you are lazy. If everyone were like you, we would be screwed. As it is, the good things come from people who are not like you. You're welcome. As someone who tries to help, you are a burden we have to deal with, we would appreciate it if you picked up some rope and helped us pull instead of just laying on the sled complaining.
The Top 1% have the power to cause so much damage. You most likely belong to the Top 10% and your reasoning is exactly the same: "Not my fault. Why would I change, as long as everyone else doesn't." But Prioners dilemma makes it worse for everyone involved. So be a better person than them, be the change you want to see in them and stop pointing fingers like a spoiled kid.
Take a train instead of a flight. Cycle to work or take public transport instead of driving. Install a heat pump or solar in your house. There are a million things people can do to cut down their emissions that can be as effective as becoming herbivores, depending on each one's personal situation.
Plus, I don't have the numbers in my head but I'm pretty sure a locally grown fillet of chicken is more environmentally friendly than an avocado that has travelled across the Atlantic, so "buy local" would be probably better advice.
Yeah, so many things one should do. Yet nothing is as simple as paying for a different product next time you're shopping your groceries.
Avocados are way less harmfull to our planet than local meat. People keep bringing this up so often it's #20 on the Vegan Bullshit Bingo.
The comment points out the single most effektive move an individal without political nor financial power can make to cut personal co2-emissions with just a change of habit.
eating meat doesn't emit co2
Producing that meat does.
Note that the commenter didn’t say to quit all eating meat. They just said to quit eating “factory farmed” meat.
It’s not about eating meat, it’s about factory farming the meat and the damage to the environment caused by it.
... right. but your personal consumption doesn't change industrial output.
If you are spending money on factory farmed meat, you are financing the industry.
If you are spending money on factory farmed meat, you are financing the industry.
regardless of what i (or you) spend my (or your) money on, the industry continues to grow. if i get hit by a bus today on my way home from work and die, the meat industry, i guarantee you, will not notice. they will continue to grow, producing more meat this year than last, and more next year than this.
That is the cynical reason for not doing anything ever to help the world.
Why should I vote? I’m one person and that will never make a difference.
Why should I recycle? I’m just one person and that will never make a difference.
Why should I donate to charity? I’m just one person and that will never make a difference.
Anything that you could do individually to help the world will make zero noticeable impact so long as you are the only one doing it. But collectively, the more people doing it the more of an impact it will have.
And how do we get a larger community of people to start something like this? Oh, I don’t know, maybe send your idea out on a forum of like minded people (such as people expressing concern about the environment) and hope to inspire others that actually care to make a change in their own habits.
That is the cynical reason for not doing anything ever to help the world.
it's a very good reason not to do things that aren't effective.
From the cynical perspective, that makes 100% sense. Not everybody is so cynical, though.
if you were proposing an effective solution i'd be all for it. we've had vegans since the 1940s, and it has not stopped the growth of agriculture industries. they have become more efficient, but i'm not sure that's either good or attributable to vegans.
Why should I vote? I’m one person and that will never make a difference.
voting is disanalogous to buying food. big meat doesn't win or lose one day every four years.
Why should I recycle? I’m just one person and that will never make a difference.
well that's probably true. the real issue is the wasteful packaging produced, and no matter how much you recycle, that's never going to curb the amount of wasteful packaging produced.
Why should I donate to charity? I’m just one person and that will never make a difference.
often, charities are able to show exactly how much money it takes to accomplish their goals. $0.11/day to feed a child is one that's stuck with me. but regardless, i think charity is a societal ill and we should be building societies that are not so stratified, so that charities are superfluous. instead of donating to charity, spend your resources building a more egalitarian society.
And how do we get a larger community of people to start something like this? Oh, I don’t know, maybe send your idea out on a forum of like minded people (such as people expressing concern about the environment) and hope to inspire others that actually care to make a change in their own habits.
let me know how that works out for you.
collectively, the more people doing it the more of an impact it will have.
well, duh. but there are still effective things you can do to help the environment. buying beans isn't one of them.
Anything that you could do individually to help the world will make zero noticeable impact so long as you are the only one doing it.
You came in here with your absolutist utilitarian life above all else or we all die post just to respond with this because someone suggested you to stop eating meat. Beautiful.
That's not veganism, that's environmentalism. Veganism is recognizing that animals have the right not to be treated as property and have atrocities visited upon them. That the experiences of animals are real and matter. That their suffering is identical in nature to your own.
Avoiding animal products for the good of the environment has nothing to do with veganism. At least understand what your childish knee-jerk reactions are actually reacting to.
Look, you're not really wrong, but you get that this shit is why people get irritated with vegans right? We were talking about being wasteful with energy resources for the sake of capitalism and you came in with a lazy segue to animal rights and nutritional health.
It's a conversation that we should be having, but it's also insufferable to constantly be shoehorning it into every conversation.
I don't agree. The comment points out the single most effektive move an individal without political nor financial power can make to cut personal co2-emissions with just a change of habit. It's not about veganism, animal rights or your health, it's just about sanity. Us still eating meat even though we know better is an incredibly dumb waste of energy for the sake of pleasure, exactly like this shitty powereating globe.
As long as >95% of the global population still consumes meat I understand the urge to bring this topic everywhere.
Oh, you're one of those "you can save the planet with your personal habits" people...
You enjoy your salad. I'm wondering what it takes to firebomb an oil refinery.
And you are one of those "every problem on the planet is the fault of someone else other than me so I can do whatever I want with no regard for it's affect on anyone else" people. Stay away from us if you can't be bothered to carry your own weight, you just drag down people who actually give a shit about something other than their own immediate selfish gratification.
Yes.
There are things in your power to change and things out of your power to change. What you are doing is sadly trying to excuse yourself from doing what you can do because of the existence of things you can't. It's absolutely because you are lazy. If everyone were like you, we would be screwed. As it is, the good things come from people who are not like you. You're welcome. As someone who tries to help, you are a burden we have to deal with, we would appreciate it if you picked up some rope and helped us pull instead of just laying on the sled complaining.
The Top 1% have the power to cause so much damage. You most likely belong to the Top 10% and your reasoning is exactly the same: "Not my fault. Why would I change, as long as everyone else doesn't." But Prioners dilemma makes it worse for everyone involved. So be a better person than them, be the change you want to see in them and stop pointing fingers like a spoiled kid.
Take a train instead of a flight. Cycle to work or take public transport instead of driving. Install a heat pump or solar in your house. There are a million things people can do to cut down their emissions that can be as effective as becoming herbivores, depending on each one's personal situation.
Plus, I don't have the numbers in my head but I'm pretty sure a locally grown fillet of chicken is more environmentally friendly than an avocado that has travelled across the Atlantic, so "buy local" would be probably better advice.
Yeah, so many things one should do. Yet nothing is as simple as paying for a different product next time you're shopping your groceries.
Avocados are way less harmfull to our planet than local meat. People keep bringing this up so often it's #20 on the Vegan Bullshit Bingo.
eating meat doesn't emit co2
Producing that meat does.
Note that the commenter didn’t say to quit all eating meat. They just said to quit eating “factory farmed” meat.
It’s not about eating meat, it’s about factory farming the meat and the damage to the environment caused by it.
... right. but your personal consumption doesn't change industrial output.
If you are spending money on factory farmed meat, you are financing the industry.
regardless of what i (or you) spend my (or your) money on, the industry continues to grow. if i get hit by a bus today on my way home from work and die, the meat industry, i guarantee you, will not notice. they will continue to grow, producing more meat this year than last, and more next year than this.
That is the cynical reason for not doing anything ever to help the world.
Why should I vote? I’m one person and that will never make a difference.
Why should I recycle? I’m just one person and that will never make a difference.
Why should I donate to charity? I’m just one person and that will never make a difference.
Anything that you could do individually to help the world will make zero noticeable impact so long as you are the only one doing it. But collectively, the more people doing it the more of an impact it will have.
And how do we get a larger community of people to start something like this? Oh, I don’t know, maybe send your idea out on a forum of like minded people (such as people expressing concern about the environment) and hope to inspire others that actually care to make a change in their own habits.
it's a very good reason not to do things that aren't effective.
From the cynical perspective, that makes 100% sense. Not everybody is so cynical, though.
if you were proposing an effective solution i'd be all for it. we've had vegans since the 1940s, and it has not stopped the growth of agriculture industries. they have become more efficient, but i'm not sure that's either good or attributable to vegans.
voting is disanalogous to buying food. big meat doesn't win or lose one day every four years.
well that's probably true. the real issue is the wasteful packaging produced, and no matter how much you recycle, that's never going to curb the amount of wasteful packaging produced.
often, charities are able to show exactly how much money it takes to accomplish their goals. $0.11/day to feed a child is one that's stuck with me. but regardless, i think charity is a societal ill and we should be building societies that are not so stratified, so that charities are superfluous. instead of donating to charity, spend your resources building a more egalitarian society.
let me know how that works out for you.
well, duh. but there are still effective things you can do to help the environment. buying beans isn't one of them.
that's not true.
You came in here with your absolutist utilitarian life above all else or we all die post just to respond with this because someone suggested you to stop eating meat. Beautiful.
That's not veganism, that's environmentalism. Veganism is recognizing that animals have the right not to be treated as property and have atrocities visited upon them. That the experiences of animals are real and matter. That their suffering is identical in nature to your own.
Avoiding animal products for the good of the environment has nothing to do with veganism. At least understand what your childish knee-jerk reactions are actually reacting to.