And its a million times better than the alternative we are risking.
True, but I feel like people have been talking past each other about this.
On the one hand, you have people saying Biden’s cabinet would do a better job than Trump, which is true. On the other hand, you have people saying Biden is going to lose to trump unless he somehow makes a dramatic turnaround in the next couple months, which is also true according to all available data.
The real question isn’t whether Biden is better than trump, it’s whether Biden would serve the country better by stepping down.
Exactly. Biden is a lost cause electorally, regardless of how good or bad he is, because he has tanked his approval with his own voterbase. Nobody is going to see Biden and then vote for Trump, they would just sit out or vote third party. Biden is just handing the win to Trump.
Nobody is going to see Biden and then vote for Trump,
I am not so certain of that. Granted the numbers would be low, but given how the Electoral College works, the entire election may hinge upon precisely that.
We've been down this road before, in both of the previous elections.
The number is non-zero, sure, but close to it. "Nobody" is just to drive the point, the DNC's best path to victory is to reengage their voterbase with popular policy and firmly standing against genocide. The "fall in line" narrative works for only so many people, and it may not be enough for the DNC to win, so the DNC should focus on voter outreach instead of fearmongering about Trump for a third election cycle in a row.
Every vote not for Biden is effectively half a vote for Trump.
Every vote not for Trump is effectively half a vote for Biden.
If you have voted republican your whole life, yes.
What if they've voted third party their whole life?
Then it's business as usual.
Got it, so then I don't get why you're upset at leftists for correctly dogging on Biden
Because it takes votes away from Biden, which makes a Trump presidency more likely.
We all know Biden is not perfect, spending time pointing it out is not very productive.
We just discussed how it doesn't, if they weren't planning on voting for Biden in the first place. If Biden wants more leftist votes, he can appeal to Leftists instead of Zionists and Neoliberals.
If you weren't planning to vote for Biden in the first place then you are not very leftist. He's the leftmost candidate of the two than are in the race.
Not voting for Biden is a tacit endorsement of Trump. You chose to have turbo-genocide instead of genocide-light.
You don't like that Biden did a publicity stunt building that pier and just brought one day worth of food in two months? Just wait until Trump decides to cover Gaza in rat poison.
You don't like that Biden keeps selling arms to Israel? How about sending a carrier group and bombing those refugee camps directly?
If you weren't planning to vote for Biden in the first place then you are not very leftist. He's the leftmost candidate of the two than are in the race.
See, that would be true if Biden could be considered anything other than firmly right wing. A vote for Biden doesn't move America to the left, it maintains the right wing status quo. Leftists have had to work outside the electoral process, historically.
Guess the huge portion of people who don't vote each year secretly want Trump.
Not voting for Biden is a tacit endorsement of Trump. You chose to have turbo-genocide instead of genocide-light.
If they weren't voting for Biden in the first place, and instead for, say, PSL or the Greens, Biden never had their vote in the first place. Secondly, 180,000 Palestinians are dead, if you're comfortable with calling that "genocide-light" then that's sickening. Even if Trump would double weapon shipments or something, we are still in full-blown genocide mode currently.
You don't like that Biden did a publicity stunt building that pier and just brought one day worth of food in two months? Just wait until Trump decides to cover Gaza in rat poison.
Trump is evil, yes, but even you have to realize he would still be working with the existing US state department. The President has the power to stop or continue the genocide, yes, but covering Gaza in Rat Poison? That's nit going to happen, especially because Israel is a Settler-Colonial state. They are taking land to live in.
You don't like that Biden keeps selling arms to Israel? How about sending a carrier group and bombing those refugee camps directly?
That would be insanely monstrous and cruel, and would likely turn the rest of the International community against America.
Except that's not the real question, bc he's already said that God Himself could not cause Biden to step down (I'm being literal here). He's doubling, tripling, and whatever more down, digging his heels in and refusing to even consider that option, regardless of who asks.
At this point he is either removed by force - which won't happen - or it's already over.
And either way, the SCOTUS ruling holds firm.
I wish him luck, but I don't expect good things to come. Even if he wins, heck even if he like rigged the election at this point and gave himself a large majority of numbers in the process, the other side won't believe it and there's a goodly chance of an actual civil war, or something along those lines (bad riots or such). Or maybe I'm full of shit, but it bothers me so much that everything that I say sounds "fatalistic" to my own inner ear - except that word means closing your eyes to the truth and choosing to believe only the worst, whereas this is my attempt to be realistic with eyes wide open!? I am saying that it does not bode well that this seems a realistic possibility rather than hyperbolic exaggeration of words for like comedic effect:-(.
Once again, there's like ~11% of the country who is die-hard Trump red maga, another ~11% Biden blue maga, and the LARGE majority of us in the middle don't matter in the slightest as we get caught between these two extremes (Russian oligarchy encroachment vs. American oligarchy establishment, tbf the latter cares far more about the common folk, but is really bad at showing that).
as Jon Stewart also pointed out, but that's not the issue here. the issue is expected performance. people expectwant one of them to be a crazy loon. the other not so much. so when he acts like he's not all there people are concerned whether he can perform well enough at the election to defeat the fascist. the polls aren't optimistic.
And its a million times better than the alternative we are risking.
True, but I feel like people have been talking past each other about this.
On the one hand, you have people saying Biden’s cabinet would do a better job than Trump, which is true. On the other hand, you have people saying Biden is going to lose to trump unless he somehow makes a dramatic turnaround in the next couple months, which is also true according to all available data.
The real question isn’t whether Biden is better than trump, it’s whether Biden would serve the country better by stepping down.
Exactly. Biden is a lost cause electorally, regardless of how good or bad he is, because he has tanked his approval with his own voterbase. Nobody is going to see Biden and then vote for Trump, they would just sit out or vote third party. Biden is just handing the win to Trump.
I am not so certain of that. Granted the numbers would be low, but given how the Electoral College works, the entire election may hinge upon precisely that.
We've been down this road before, in both of the previous elections.
The number is non-zero, sure, but close to it. "Nobody" is just to drive the point, the DNC's best path to victory is to reengage their voterbase with popular policy and firmly standing against genocide. The "fall in line" narrative works for only so many people, and it may not be enough for the DNC to win, so the DNC should focus on voter outreach instead of fearmongering about Trump for a third election cycle in a row.
Every vote not for Biden is effectively half a vote for Trump.
Every vote not for Trump is effectively half a vote for Biden.
If you have voted republican your whole life, yes.
What if they've voted third party their whole life?
Then it's business as usual.
Got it, so then I don't get why you're upset at leftists for correctly dogging on Biden
Because it takes votes away from Biden, which makes a Trump presidency more likely.
We all know Biden is not perfect, spending time pointing it out is not very productive.
We just discussed how it doesn't, if they weren't planning on voting for Biden in the first place. If Biden wants more leftist votes, he can appeal to Leftists instead of Zionists and Neoliberals.
If you weren't planning to vote for Biden in the first place then you are not very leftist. He's the leftmost candidate of the two than are in the race.
Not voting for Biden is a tacit endorsement of Trump. You chose to have turbo-genocide instead of genocide-light.
You don't like that Biden did a publicity stunt building that pier and just brought one day worth of food in two months? Just wait until Trump decides to cover Gaza in rat poison.
You don't like that Biden keeps selling arms to Israel? How about sending a carrier group and bombing those refugee camps directly?
See, that would be true if Biden could be considered anything other than firmly right wing. A vote for Biden doesn't move America to the left, it maintains the right wing status quo. Leftists have had to work outside the electoral process, historically.
Guess the huge portion of people who don't vote each year secretly want Trump.
If they weren't voting for Biden in the first place, and instead for, say, PSL or the Greens, Biden never had their vote in the first place. Secondly, 180,000 Palestinians are dead, if you're comfortable with calling that "genocide-light" then that's sickening. Even if Trump would double weapon shipments or something, we are still in full-blown genocide mode currently.
Trump is evil, yes, but even you have to realize he would still be working with the existing US state department. The President has the power to stop or continue the genocide, yes, but covering Gaza in Rat Poison? That's nit going to happen, especially because Israel is a Settler-Colonial state. They are taking land to live in.
That would be insanely monstrous and cruel, and would likely turn the rest of the International community against America.
Except that's not the real question, bc he's already said that God Himself could not cause Biden to step down (I'm being literal here). He's doubling, tripling, and whatever more down, digging his heels in and refusing to even consider that option, regardless of who asks.
At this point he is either removed by force - which won't happen - or it's already over.
And either way, the SCOTUS ruling holds firm.
I wish him luck, but I don't expect good things to come. Even if he wins, heck even if he like rigged the election at this point and gave himself a large majority of numbers in the process, the other side won't believe it and there's a goodly chance of an actual civil war, or something along those lines (bad riots or such). Or maybe I'm full of shit, but it bothers me so much that everything that I say sounds "fatalistic" to my own inner ear - except that word means closing your eyes to the truth and choosing to believe only the worst, whereas this is my attempt to be realistic with eyes wide open!? I am saying that it does not bode well that this seems a realistic possibility rather than hyperbolic exaggeration of words for like comedic effect:-(.
Once again, there's like ~11% of the country who is die-hard Trump red maga, another ~11% Biden blue maga, and the LARGE majority of us in the middle don't matter in the slightest as we get caught between these two extremes (Russian oligarchy encroachment vs. American oligarchy establishment, tbf the latter cares far more about the common folk, but is really bad at showing that).
as Jon Stewart also pointed out, but that's not the issue here. the issue is expected performance. people
expectwant one of them to be a crazy loon. the other not so much. so when he acts like he's not all there people are concerned whether he can perform well enough at the election to defeat the fascist. the polls aren't optimistic.