I will say, I haven't seen a moderation level action yet that seems horribly wrong, but I feel like that's only going to be a matter of time
^^1 Paraphrased, not a direct quote
e; I apparently can't figure out superscript text
The Charlottesville people are largely fascists, but they also don't have that much influence in American politics. Dobbs is not a fascist position. I personally support abortion access- but there is nothing in the Constitution to protect it. As for state laws persecuting trans people I actually have looked that much into what's passed, I've just seen rhetoric. Can you point me to some of the laws that're chrisofascist?
If you have a table of 10 people, and a Nazi sits down and joins them without them kicking him out, you now have a table with 11 Nazis at it.
Chomsky has some great takes on certain topics. He’s phenomenal at linguistics, and his analysis of propaganda systems in the US is paralleled only by Parenti. Unfortunately, he also holds some contradictory viewpoints to what he espouses. You cannot tolerate intolerance. Period. Having a different view is not the same as being a Nazi. It’s not merely a difference of opinion. Your right to free speech stops where my face begins. You don’t have the right to advocate for my murder, as they did in Charlottesville, and accepting that as an opinion would mean inherently abandoning the belief that human rights are universal.
I disagree. You can oppose a murder without murdering them. In the same way, those who oppose certain rights of others must be opposed but not persecuted, not only because they'd become a martyr- but because even though I strongly disagree their beliefs and in my opinion are clearly wrong that doesn't exactly matter to whether I can talk to them about programming over lunch.
Your right to free speech stops where my face begins.
What does this mean?
and accepting that as an opinion would mean inherently abandoning the belief that human rights are universal.
An opinion can be disgusting and abhorrent and still be an any opinion. Nazism clearly is an opinion- an abhorrent opinion that rejects human life and human rights, yet still an opinion. Just like someone can have an opinion that murdering as many people as possible is good.
Nazism clearly is an opinion- an abhorrent opinion that rejects human life and human rights, yet still an opinion. Just like someone can have an opinion that murdering as many people as possible is good.
If nazis are welcome in a community, no one else is.
What should be done to a nazi if they're living in your city/area/country?
It should be made perfectly clear to nazis that they are not welcome.
What should happen to a nazi if they post on this community?
It should be made perfectly clear to nazis that they are not welcome.
Unwelcome how? If someone associates with them do they become Nazis by association?
What should happen to a nazi if they post on this community?
It depends what they post, just like with anyone else.
Unwelcome how?
Well, I'd start by telling them that nazis aren't welcome.
If someone associates with them do they become Nazis by association?
If someone keeps voluntarily hanging out with people they know are nazis, it means that they consider the presence of nazis acceptable, and that nazis consider their presence acceptable. That doesn't sound like much else but a nazi. This excludes spies and members of underground movements and so forth who have infiltrated nazi groups under false pretenses. It also excludes fools in the late 20s and early 30s who didn't see the threat for what it was until it was too late.
It depends what they post, just like with anyone else.
Then as far as the moderation team is concerned, nazis are as welcome here as any other user.
They were all fascists, and everything else you said is, at best, so deeply ignorant that I don't think I've got the time or mental energy to point out how dumb and dangerous this refusal to see what should be obvious to everyone is. I strongly encourage you to step down as a moderator of this community and strongly encourage anyone who approved your being made a mod to do the same.
How is he ignorant
They were all fascists
Every single one there? I do not think you could possibly know that.
dumb and dangerous this refusal to see what should be obvious to everyone is.
Ironically what I said in my mod application is:
"I fully accept that people can and do hold opposing opinions to me, yet might be smarter, more informed, or more moral than me. I may still disagree with them but being wrong isn't evil."
Do you think I(or anyone) could disagree with you on anything without you automatically assuming they are less informed, stupider, or evil?
Every single one there? I do not think you could possibly know that.
The counterprotesters weren't. If you're marching and nazis show up to march with you and you don't drive them off or leave yourself, you're ok marching with nazis. The term for someone who is ok marching with nazis is "a nazi."
So the German Communist Party were Nazis?
After the Nazi electoral breakthrough in the 1930 Reichstag election, the SPD proposed a renewed united front with the KPD against fascism but this was rejected.[25]
In the early 1930s, the KPD cooperated with the Nazis in attacking the social democrats, and both sought to destroy the liberal democracy of the Weimar Republic.[26] They also followed an increasingly nationalist course, trying to appeal to nationalist-leaning workers.[4][27]
In 1931, the party reported a membership of 200,000.[28]
The KPD leadership initially first criticised but then supported the 1931 Prussian Landtag referendum, an unsuccessful attempt launched by the far-right Stahlhelm to bring down the social democrat state government of Prussia by means of a plebiscite; the KPD referred to the SA as "working people's comrades" during this campaign.[29]
In this period, while also opposed to the Nazis, the KPD regarded the Nazi Party as a less sophisticated and thus less dangerous fascist party than the SPD, and KPD leader Ernst Thälmann declared that "some Nazi trees must not be allowed to overshadow a forest [of social democrats]".[30] In February 1932, Thälmann argued that “Hitler must come to power first, then the requirements for a revolutionary crisis [will] arrive more quickly”. In November 1932, the KPD and the Nazis worked together in the Berlin transport workers’ strike.
Wow. Neat pro-nazi talking points. Do you think this is a good look for the moderation team?
I'd say the German Communist Party didn't know any better and learned the hard way what happens when you welcome nazis. It's interesting how none of your examples are from after 1932. I wonder what could have happened in 1933 that caused the sudden cutoff.
Neat pro-nazi talking points.
How is that pro-nazi? My personal ideology is essentially in opposition to Nazi ideology in every possible matter.
I'd say the German Communist Party didn't know any better
Not what I asked. You said marching with Nazis automatically makes you a Nazi, regardless of if they kill you later or not. So were they Nazis or not.
It's interesting how none of your examples are from after 1932.
Interesting how you didn't answer, were they Nazis?
My personal ideology is essentially in opposition to Nazi ideology in every possible matter.
Essentially? Wow, you can't even pretend to oppose nazis without wormy equivocation.
Not what I asked. You said marching with Nazis automatically makes you a Nazi, regardless of if they kill you later or not. So were they Nazis or not.
In this day and age it is. Certainly in the context of the unite the right nazi rally it is, which is what we were talking about. I can't fault fools who didn't know any better. Everyone knows they're the baddies now. Everyone at that rally knew exactly what they were about.
Interesting how you didn’t answer, were they Nazis?
The nazis didn't seem to think so, since they built Dachau to kill them. But yeah, have your stupid little gotcha. You're so clever.
headpats.
Essentially? Wow, you can't even pretend to oppose nazis without wormy equivocation.
Yeah because I think even Nazis would agree with me that random murder should be a crime or at least some people should have access to clean drinking water. I assume you agree with that too.
I can't fault fools who didn't know any better. Everyone knows they're the baddies now. Everyone at that rally knew exactly what they were about.
I think you overestimate how many people are obsessed with internet politics.
The nazis didn't seem to think so, since they built Dachau to kill them.
I didn't ask if they thought so I asked if you did.
Also, stop being patronizing, it's not funny it's just rude.
I think you overestimate how many people are obsessed with internet politics.
The nazis at the rally were chanting nazi slogans and carrying torches. They were not immediately removed from the rally. They were not removed at all. It was obvious to even the most casual observer that it was a nazi rally. Anyone marching in a nazi rally is a nazi. Even when Trump calls them "very fine people" and unconvincingly walks it back.
Now go ahead and pretend that fools who didn't know any better in the 30s are equivalent to people in 2017 who should have known better but marched with nazis anyway. You seem to be under the impression that it's a good look.
The nazis at the rally were chanting nazi slogans and carrying torches.
Most people don't know Nazi slogans or associate torches with Nazis.
It was obvious to even the most casual observer that it was a nazi rally.
How can you know if those who don't recognize it you call them Nazis and dismiss what they perceived?
You seem to be under the impression that it's a good look.
I didn't say it was a good look? It's not like I was there.
The Charlottesville people are largely fascists, but they also don’t have that much influence in American politics.
The president at the time called them "very fine people" because he was scared of alienating them.
I think he more likely believed there were some non-nazis in the group seeing as he in the same quote said I condemn neo-nazis and white supremacists dozens of times
In case anyone needed to know where c/politics' moderation team is coming from.
I mean, none of us can speak to what someone else believes. I don't think Trump puts that much thought into what he says to intentionally not say something to avoid alienating voters.
The constitution itself protects it. It's called penumbral reasoning.
The idea that we set up a limited government that could also come into people's homes and legislate family planning decisions is absurd to the point of stupidity.
I agree there an many unenumerated rights, but I understand the argument that there is nothing indicating that the is any more protected than bodily autonomy when it comes to drugs, or how you raise your children, etc. But, I am of the belief that drug use and abortion could definitely be considered protected rights. I just understand the perspective of those who disagree.
Yeah I guess. I've only been able to get internships- good internships. But I've never been able to get a real job
Maybe I misinterpreted that.
What's with all the comments about closing public schools and calling clearly fascist movements as "christian moralists".
I see you are a @aidan fan. Here is the thing, we all will have different interpretations of political viewpoints. This isn't a open forum for only progressives, conservatives, liberals, moderates, or whatever, it is a shared forum open to different perspectives. You don't have to agree or disagree with anyone's points, but we are one community and everyone's voice can be heard (as long as it doesn't violate the rules or lemmy.world TOS). That is why having aiden is a great asset to the team. Moderators are rarely liked, but we value his commitment to growing the community and providing insight and perspective.
Exactly what I wanted to hear.
I hope this place stays open-minded and free to discuss different viewpoints. Even if I don't agree with certain views of one member of the mod team, I'm ok with that. As long as it doesn't influence who can post their opinion.
Thanks for your comment and..
well, we'll see in the future.
Currently working a good internship. Also, talk about stalking!
Edit: I also never advocated closing public schools. I advocated making them voluntary.
Edit 2: I have also been offered a few jobs but are not feasible for me since I want to live near my partner.
I wouldn't consider it stalking but a background-check.
This community could (/will) become the biggest political forum on the web. Wouldn't you want to know who moderates it?
You can go through my post history, nothing to hide. I don't consider it stalking but a feature.
We will follow your journey with great interest.
I wouldn’t consider it stalking but a background-check.
And why does dissent automatically fail the background check in your book?
Of course you're free to, it's just I'd argue a rude thing to do to instead of judging someones actions you criticized them for being vulnerable in a completely different context days ago.
I mean how else people's gonna know who has the moral high ground am I rite
It's a traditional right wing position to defund public schools.
Right now :
'House Republicans want to cut Title I funding by 80%'
If you don't know, title 1 funding is money for the poorest public schools. The money is often used for nutrition programs, resource educators, special education teachers and Education assistants.
I think you might be too young and inexperienced to be an unbiased moderator.
It's a traditional right wing position to defund public schools.
Largely yes.
I think you might be too young and inexperienced to be an unbiased moderator.
Judge based on action, you very clearly broke rule 3 to insult me because I disagreed with you on this exact issue. You then said I should be removed from being a moderator, not because of an action but because I disagreed on this issue. I'm sorry idk what to tell you other than watch the modlogs.
Fucking ban me then
No, we don't ban for rule 3 violations unless its multiple times repeated.
I'm not far-right. I have a job.
"They're not christofascists, they're Christian moralists" ^^1 is a disturbingly far right position post Charlottesville, Dobbs, and all the state laws persecuting trans people that have been passed recently.
I will say, I haven't seen a moderation level action yet that seems horribly wrong, but I feel like that's only going to be a matter of time
^^1 Paraphrased, not a direct quote
e; I apparently can't figure out superscript text
The Charlottesville people are largely fascists, but they also don't have that much influence in American politics. Dobbs is not a fascist position. I personally support abortion access- but there is nothing in the Constitution to protect it. As for state laws persecuting trans people I actually have looked that much into what's passed, I've just seen rhetoric. Can you point me to some of the laws that're chrisofascist?
If you have a table of 10 people, and a Nazi sits down and joins them without them kicking him out, you now have a table with 11 Nazis at it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-oV42OMQoE
Chomsky has some great takes on certain topics. He’s phenomenal at linguistics, and his analysis of propaganda systems in the US is paralleled only by Parenti. Unfortunately, he also holds some contradictory viewpoints to what he espouses. You cannot tolerate intolerance. Period. Having a different view is not the same as being a Nazi. It’s not merely a difference of opinion. Your right to free speech stops where my face begins. You don’t have the right to advocate for my murder, as they did in Charlottesville, and accepting that as an opinion would mean inherently abandoning the belief that human rights are universal.
I disagree. You can oppose a murder without murdering them. In the same way, those who oppose certain rights of others must be opposed but not persecuted, not only because they'd become a martyr- but because even though I strongly disagree their beliefs and in my opinion are clearly wrong that doesn't exactly matter to whether I can talk to them about programming over lunch.
What does this mean?
An opinion can be disgusting and abhorrent and still be an any opinion. Nazism clearly is an opinion- an abhorrent opinion that rejects human life and human rights, yet still an opinion. Just like someone can have an opinion that murdering as many people as possible is good.
If nazis are welcome in a community, no one else is.
What should be done to a nazi if they're living in your city/area/country?
It should be made perfectly clear to nazis that they are not welcome.
What should happen to a nazi if they post on this community?
Unwelcome how? If someone associates with them do they become Nazis by association?
It depends what they post, just like with anyone else.
Well, I'd start by telling them that nazis aren't welcome.
If someone keeps voluntarily hanging out with people they know are nazis, it means that they consider the presence of nazis acceptable, and that nazis consider their presence acceptable. That doesn't sound like much else but a nazi. This excludes spies and members of underground movements and so forth who have infiltrated nazi groups under false pretenses. It also excludes fools in the late 20s and early 30s who didn't see the threat for what it was until it was too late.
Then as far as the moderation team is concerned, nazis are as welcome here as any other user.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=4-oV42OMQoE
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
They were all fascists, and everything else you said is, at best, so deeply ignorant that I don't think I've got the time or mental energy to point out how dumb and dangerous this refusal to see what should be obvious to everyone is. I strongly encourage you to step down as a moderator of this community and strongly encourage anyone who approved your being made a mod to do the same.
How is he ignorant
Every single one there? I do not think you could possibly know that.
Ironically what I said in my mod application is:
"I fully accept that people can and do hold opposing opinions to me, yet might be smarter, more informed, or more moral than me. I may still disagree with them but being wrong isn't evil."
Do you think I(or anyone) could disagree with you on anything without you automatically assuming they are less informed, stupider, or evil?
The counterprotesters weren't. If you're marching and nazis show up to march with you and you don't drive them off or leave yourself, you're ok marching with nazis. The term for someone who is ok marching with nazis is "a nazi."
So the German Communist Party were Nazis?
Wow. Neat pro-nazi talking points. Do you think this is a good look for the moderation team?
I'd say the German Communist Party didn't know any better and learned the hard way what happens when you welcome nazis. It's interesting how none of your examples are from after 1932. I wonder what could have happened in 1933 that caused the sudden cutoff.
How is that pro-nazi? My personal ideology is essentially in opposition to Nazi ideology in every possible matter.
Not what I asked. You said marching with Nazis automatically makes you a Nazi, regardless of if they kill you later or not. So were they Nazis or not.
Interesting how you didn't answer, were they Nazis?
Essentially? Wow, you can't even pretend to oppose nazis without wormy equivocation.
In this day and age it is. Certainly in the context of the unite the right nazi rally it is, which is what we were talking about. I can't fault fools who didn't know any better. Everyone knows they're the baddies now. Everyone at that rally knew exactly what they were about.
The nazis didn't seem to think so, since they built Dachau to kill them. But yeah, have your stupid little gotcha. You're so clever.
headpats.
Yeah because I think even Nazis would agree with me that random murder should be a crime or at least some people should have access to clean drinking water. I assume you agree with that too.
I think you overestimate how many people are obsessed with internet politics.
I didn't ask if they thought so I asked if you did.
Also, stop being patronizing, it's not funny it's just rude.
The nazis at the rally were chanting nazi slogans and carrying torches. They were not immediately removed from the rally. They were not removed at all. It was obvious to even the most casual observer that it was a nazi rally. Anyone marching in a nazi rally is a nazi. Even when Trump calls them "very fine people" and unconvincingly walks it back.
Now go ahead and pretend that fools who didn't know any better in the 30s are equivalent to people in 2017 who should have known better but marched with nazis anyway. You seem to be under the impression that it's a good look.
Most people don't know Nazi slogans or associate torches with Nazis.
How can you know if those who don't recognize it you call them Nazis and dismiss what they perceived?
I didn't say it was a good look? It's not like I was there.
The president at the time called them "very fine people" because he was scared of alienating them.
I think he more likely believed there were some non-nazis in the group seeing as he in the same quote said I condemn neo-nazis and white supremacists dozens of times
In case anyone needed to know where c/politics' moderation team is coming from.
I mean, none of us can speak to what someone else believes. I don't think Trump puts that much thought into what he says to intentionally not say something to avoid alienating voters.
The constitution itself protects it. It's called penumbral reasoning.
The idea that we set up a limited government that could also come into people's homes and legislate family planning decisions is absurd to the point of stupidity.
I agree there an many unenumerated rights, but I understand the argument that there is nothing indicating that the is any more protected than bodily autonomy when it comes to drugs, or how you raise your children, etc. But, I am of the belief that drug use and abortion could definitely be considered protected rights. I just understand the perspective of those who disagree.
https://lemmy.world/comment/1093566
Maybe I misinterpreted that.
What's with all the comments about closing public schools and calling clearly fascist movements as "christian moralists".
I see you are a @aidan fan. Here is the thing, we all will have different interpretations of political viewpoints. This isn't a open forum for only progressives, conservatives, liberals, moderates, or whatever, it is a shared forum open to different perspectives. You don't have to agree or disagree with anyone's points, but we are one community and everyone's voice can be heard (as long as it doesn't violate the rules or lemmy.world TOS). That is why having aiden is a great asset to the team. Moderators are rarely liked, but we value his commitment to growing the community and providing insight and perspective.
Exactly what I wanted to hear.
I hope this place stays open-minded and free to discuss different viewpoints. Even if I don't agree with certain views of one member of the mod team, I'm ok with that. As long as it doesn't influence who can post their opinion.
Thanks for your comment and..
well, we'll see in the future.
Currently working a good internship. Also, talk about stalking!
Edit: I also never advocated closing public schools. I advocated making them voluntary.
Edit 2: I have also been offered a few jobs but are not feasible for me since I want to live near my partner.
I wouldn't consider it stalking but a background-check.
This community could (/will) become the biggest political forum on the web. Wouldn't you want to know who moderates it?
You can go through my post history, nothing to hide. I don't consider it stalking but a feature.
We will follow your journey with great interest.
And why does dissent automatically fail the background check in your book?
Of course you're free to, it's just I'd argue a rude thing to do to instead of judging someones actions you criticized them for being vulnerable in a completely different context days ago.
I mean how else people's gonna know who has the moral high ground am I rite
It's a traditional right wing position to defund public schools. Right now : 'House Republicans want to cut Title I funding by 80%'
If you don't know, title 1 funding is money for the poorest public schools. The money is often used for nutrition programs, resource educators, special education teachers and Education assistants.
I think you might be too young and inexperienced to be an unbiased moderator.
Largely yes.
Judge based on action, you very clearly broke rule 3 to insult me because I disagreed with you on this exact issue. You then said I should be removed from being a moderator, not because of an action but because I disagreed on this issue. I'm sorry idk what to tell you other than watch the modlogs.
Fucking ban me then
No, we don't ban for rule 3 violations unless its multiple times repeated.
Based