I agree there's a lot of problems with unpaid internships and work and such, but I don't think this is that bad?
It feels like "hey, if you really like our product and want to show it off, we can send you information and merch, and put you in touch with higher ups."
I'd complain if Microsoft or Google started doing this, because they are huge megacorps with deep pockets, but Framework seems like a small company that can't really afford huge marketing departments. If people want to devote their time to a cause they beleive in, more power to them.
They also aren't doing it with the promise or threat of something, which is an issue with a lot of unpaid work. The people they're targeting know exactly what they are getting into, and that they are doing it for their own reasons.
Yeah, I'm fine with it.
can't afford huge marketing departments
Then they need to market within their budget. That's not an excuse.
Profitable companies don't get to have "volunteers." Non-profits and charities get to have those. This is data collection for product development, and advertising for products.
This is a reason for me to not buy a Framework laptop.
profitable companies are causes now
People want to promote companies with ethical business practices. I don't understand why that's such a problem for you.
I won’t even volunteer feedback to companies when they ask for it, and they incessantly ask for it.
Well its not gonna get any better by not supporting the companies that try to do better.
I don’t put up with for-profit companies any more than I have to. I don’t support them or do charity work for them. Corporate brands are not out friends.
What non-profit company did you get the computer you are currently using to type these messages from?
Do you think that’s a clever gotcha? I said, “I don’t put up with for-profit companies any more than I have to.”
Edit to add: For a free & commercial free & non-profit social media platform with a FOSS focus, there’s a surprising amount of corpo simping going on here.
Edit to add: For a free & commercial free & non-profit social media platform with a FOSS focus, there’s a surprising amount of corpo simping going on here.
So, I suppose, every company should be non-profit, in your eyes? Everyone should just volunteer their time? I'm just wondering how your utopian society is supposed to function?
You're never going to have free computers. Framework represents the opposite of everything big corpos stand for.
Businesses can be for-profit and still ethical. In fact, the vast majority of them are. It's only the wildly wealthy and powerful ones that are shit. Taking a stand against them is incredibly naive and ignorant.
Okay so you're just delusional then. Glad we sorted that out!
I don't suppose you work for a profit? Your landlord let's you live for free in their house? Fuckin Ruth's Chris steakhouse just says "ah, you good bruh!" at the checkout counter?
Maybe I should start charging you a monthly fee for access to lemmy.ml.
Quit reposting this shitty meme. It's not applicable. If you want a society where everyone works for free, you'd better get the ball rolling. Advocating for others to do that while refusing to do it yourself is pure hypocrisy.
Maybe I should start charging you a monthly fee for access to lemmy.ml.
Why would I pay you for something I don't even use? And you don't even own? If you want to start your own Lemmy server and charge admission, by all means, go right ahead. But Lemmy by it's very nature wouldn't allow for that since there are hundreds of other free servers. You see anyone out there making laptops for free and just giving them away to anyone who wants them? No? What a bunch of assholes!
Lemmy is something people created in their spare time. When they're not working at their jobs that pay them with money they collect from customers so that they can pay rent and buy food.
This is just such a preposterously insane thing to even put forward.
Well that's your prerogative but I've no idea what that has to do with this conversation. Nobody should be allowed to do it because you don't want to do it?
Companies ask for feedback so they can make products people actually want to buy...you have a problem with that as well?
We know consumer electronics can be better for you and for the environment. Unlike most products, ours are open for you to repair and upgrade.
That's the "cause" that people believe in. And the volunteers that they are looking for are those that think Framework are the way to accomplish it. Realistically, that problem can't be solved by a non-profit - Materials, logistics and R&D can't be done by volunteers. So a corporation is the only reasonable choice for the goal they want to accomplish.
I'm sure they would love to be able to pay all the people that will volunteer, but they likely just don't have the money. So it's either give volunteers something for helping out, or just do nothing and ignore them.
You might want to actually read the article, cause that's completely missing the point of the program, and ignoring all context. As with all things, context matters.
It's a free market though. You can just buy from the wonderful companies that are Dell or Lenovo instead. Don't try to look to closely at them, or you won't be able to but a laptop ever again.
I did actually read the article and I did not miss the point even a little bit.
I think the jury is still out on whether Framework can be profitable. And by that definition, literally asking someone what product you want them to make is data collection.
I'm not a fan of a for-profit organisation having unpaid workers, but I get it if they want to see an otherwise unprofitable, yet passionate demographic. If they can compensate the person in other ways like was mentioned above (merch, contact with decision makers, possibly info on future products) then there is some exchange happening there and maybe that's worth it to the right person.
I agree there's a lot of problems with unpaid internships and work and such, but I don't think this is that bad?
It feels like "hey, if you really like our product and want to show it off, we can send you information and merch, and put you in touch with higher ups."
I'd complain if Microsoft or Google started doing this, because they are huge megacorps with deep pockets, but Framework seems like a small company that can't really afford huge marketing departments. If people want to devote their time to a cause they beleive in, more power to them.
They also aren't doing it with the promise or threat of something, which is an issue with a lot of unpaid work. The people they're targeting know exactly what they are getting into, and that they are doing it for their own reasons.
Yeah, I'm fine with it.
Then they need to market within their budget. That's not an excuse.
https://youtu.be/jVkLVRt6c1U?si=kD1NNv1Sv0K5DFnV
profitable companies are causes now
Profitable companies don't get to have "volunteers." Non-profits and charities get to have those. This is data collection for product development, and advertising for products.
This is a reason for me to not buy a Framework laptop.
People want to promote companies with ethical business practices. I don't understand why that's such a problem for you.
I won’t even volunteer feedback to companies when they ask for it, and they incessantly ask for it.
Well its not gonna get any better by not supporting the companies that try to do better.
I don’t put up with for-profit companies any more than I have to. I don’t support them or do charity work for them. Corporate brands are not out friends.
What non-profit company did you get the computer you are currently using to type these messages from?
Do you think that’s a clever gotcha? I said, “I don’t put up with for-profit companies any more than I have to.”
Edit to add: For a free & commercial free & non-profit social media platform with a FOSS focus, there’s a surprising amount of corpo simping going on here.
So, I suppose, every company should be non-profit, in your eyes? Everyone should just volunteer their time? I'm just wondering how your utopian society is supposed to function?
You're never going to have free computers. Framework represents the opposite of everything big corpos stand for.
Businesses can be for-profit and still ethical. In fact, the vast majority of them are. It's only the wildly wealthy and powerful ones that are shit. Taking a stand against them is incredibly naive and ignorant.
It is easier to imagine an end to the world than an end to capitalism.
We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings.
☭
Okay so you're just delusional then. Glad we sorted that out!
I don't suppose you work for a profit? Your landlord let's you live for free in their house? Fuckin Ruth's Chris steakhouse just says "ah, you good bruh!" at the checkout counter?
https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
Maybe I should start charging you a monthly fee for access to lemmy.ml.
Quit reposting this shitty meme. It's not applicable. If you want a society where everyone works for free, you'd better get the ball rolling. Advocating for others to do that while refusing to do it yourself is pure hypocrisy.
Why would I pay you for something I don't even use? And you don't even own? If you want to start your own Lemmy server and charge admission, by all means, go right ahead. But Lemmy by it's very nature wouldn't allow for that since there are hundreds of other free servers. You see anyone out there making laptops for free and just giving them away to anyone who wants them? No? What a bunch of assholes!
Lemmy is something people created in their spare time. When they're not working at their jobs that pay them with money they collect from customers so that they can pay rent and buy food.
This is just such a preposterously insane thing to even put forward.
Well that's your prerogative but I've no idea what that has to do with this conversation. Nobody should be allowed to do it because you don't want to do it?
Companies ask for feedback so they can make products people actually want to buy...you have a problem with that as well?
That's the "cause" that people believe in. And the volunteers that they are looking for are those that think Framework are the way to accomplish it. Realistically, that problem can't be solved by a non-profit - Materials, logistics and R&D can't be done by volunteers. So a corporation is the only reasonable choice for the goal they want to accomplish.
I'm sure they would love to be able to pay all the people that will volunteer, but they likely just don't have the money. So it's either give volunteers something for helping out, or just do nothing and ignore them.
You might want to actually read the article, cause that's completely missing the point of the program, and ignoring all context. As with all things, context matters.
It's a free market though. You can just buy from the wonderful companies that are Dell or Lenovo instead. Don't try to look to closely at them, or you won't be able to but a laptop ever again.
I did actually read the article and I did not miss the point even a little bit.
I think the jury is still out on whether Framework can be profitable. And by that definition, literally asking someone what product you want them to make is data collection.
I'm not a fan of a for-profit organisation having unpaid workers, but I get it if they want to see an otherwise unprofitable, yet passionate demographic. If they can compensate the person in other ways like was mentioned above (merch, contact with decision makers, possibly info on future products) then there is some exchange happening there and maybe that's worth it to the right person.