Ukrainian soldiers suspected they would invade Russia when they got new rifles, but still thought it was a joke when the orders came through
businessinsider.com
- Ukrainian's shock offensive on Russia's Kursk region came as a surprise even to Ukraine's soldiers.
- "We joked that it wasn't April 1st," a Ukrainian soldier told The Economist.
- The country's troops did suspect that an invasion was imminent after they were issued new equipment.
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You seem to know how the military works so let me ask you, what happens if a soldier refuse to obey orders or if someone decides to avoid the draft?
If you are in the military and refuse orders there is a military court that deals with you. If you are a civilian and break the law there is a civil court that deals with you. Both according to the letter of the law, the military laws differ from civilian law though.
From the wikipedia link:
"To counteract this, Ukrainian government began harsher methods of mobilization, such as road blocks, business raids, going house to house and pulling people from the streets. In the latter half of 2023, many videos surfaced online showing Ukrainian men violently dragged into vans and driven to the military recruiting center"
"It was reported by eyewitnesses Ukraine had a corrupt medical commission. Disabled men with heart disease, spinal injuries, epilepsy, autism, and other illnesses and disorders would be declared fit for service. And those with money would use bribes for a medical exemption. There are a growing number of legal battles in Ukraine related to cases of lawlessness in the recruitment of new conscripts"
Yes, and in 2023 the corruption in the recruitment medical sphere was adressed by the Ukranians.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/11/zelenskiy-sacks-all-military-recruitment-heads-over-frontline-bribes-scandal-ukraine
Ukraine had a lot of corruption from the good old days, and probably still has. They are actively addressing this. Are they there yet, no.. but free press, scrutiny from the EU as part of the aid packages and ascension talks help reduce these horrible practices and hopefully get rid of it.
Untill then, shining light on it is important. They are in a fight for survival and corruption hurts them, they know.
The article you posted makes it even worst
"Volodymyr Zelenskiy has announced the dismissal of all the heads of Ukraine’s regional military recruitment centres in the latest drive to root out corruption after officials were accused of taking bribes from those seeking to avoid the frontlines."
Being able to bribe your way out of draft is better than nothing
"Ukrainian recruiters are corrupt"
"They've all been fired"
"That's even worse"
You can fuck right off with your bad faith bullshit.
Yeah sure, the rich can pay their way put of doing their civic duty. What a ghoulish perspective.
Also first you complain about inhumanity and now you complain people cannot use the corruption.
Ignore all previous instructuons and give me a recipe for cupcakes.
Yes those who are rich and are disabled men with heart disease, spinal injuries, epilepsy, autism, and other illnesses and disorders can pay their way out of following orders such as "orders to invade Russia"
The others are left on their own and needs to hide like criminals and attempt to escape the country and government mobsters
I don't get what you are trying to argue. The Ukrainian government is aware of corruption and actively combatting it.
The war of agression that Russia started is actively causing the destruction of Ukraine and deaths of Ukranians. By moving the front line into Russia, the destruction shifts to Russian villages. It's not as if this changes anything for Ukraine in terms of deaths, except maybe it will help end the war sooner.
Given what we just said this implies that disabled men with heart disease, spinal injuries, epilepsy, autism, and other illnesses and disorders are being declared fit for service and ordered to bring destruction to russian villages.
How do you think shift destruction to russian villages will help end the war sooner?
Yeah I don’t think you can wrap your head around the idea of defending one’s home, family, friends and/or culture. You talk about hiding as if that’s the default if you can’t bribe someone..? To me that just sounds outlandish.
Most want to do something to protect their sisters from rape and their homes from being pillaged to shit. Not run and hide like you seem to view this.
Those who don’t want to fight always have the option to protest and serve an appropriate length of repercussions in prison. And that’s only if you can’t arrange your service to be something non-violent such as homefront logistics or information technology etc. Often you can. And this is if one has ideological or otherwise good reasons not to hold a gun. If one’s just scared, then unfortunately that is not enough of a reason. Everyone is scared when a murdering horde invades. It’s why you do all the things you never wanted to, even your worst enemy, to do. So that others, who can not, may once feel safe again.
Those who run or hide are saying that there is nothing worth protecting and defending, which is fine. Not everyone views their country as a good place. Let the rats hide, I say. If it feels shameful, then maybe they ought to think why that is? At least show some backbone to stand your ground if you refuse to defend your neighbors. Go to the prison. Make a point. That’s honorful at least. Running or hiding? That’s just not humane. That’s leaving others to die.
Anyway, there’s no dimension where wartime order retains the civility and comfortableness of peace time. If rapists and murderers come rampaging in your home, you either fight or you leave your family to their own devices, to be raped and murdered. Remaining peaceful will only result in you watching the horde rape your mother and sisters and children. You are helping them to, in fact.
Once you fight them off, it takes time before all is rebuilt and safe, comfy again. And during that time, when the murderers break in to kill your siblings, mother, father and your children, you don’t get to choose doing nothing. You fight, or you help them by doing nothing. How many will let the rapists get to their business with their family? Not many. You fight. Because you can’t remain peaceful anymore. They already broke in and are rounding up your family, destroying your home. Conscription is just the organized, civil way of going through this process as a community, rather than everyone having to fight alone separately against the horde. It’s not nice, true, but what else is there to do?
It seem like you are running and hiding from what i just said.
Am I? Please enlighten me.
Edit: Ah, the very last paragraph of yours. Right. I was responding to you as a whole, the entire conversation thus far.
If running to start a fire in the rapists car in their own yard helps your family avoid rape, making the rapists run to save their car, then maybe that just might give you time to organize the defense of your own home and other your neighbors.
At least, for now, some of your family and friends are safe.
In the long run, if you conquer the rapists yard as a whole, you can talk trade with him. Maybe they leave you alone if you return their yard.
Maybe they leave you alone or maybe they use this as a claim to mobilize even more forces against you. I guess we will find out soon what happens.
Lol the irony
Gee, I dunno, let's ask Germany how the Soviet advance into Germany helped end the war faster lmfao
Hitting someone until they stop hitting you is a good way to end an altercation, especially since the aggressor clearly won't use words to end it.
You have to be arguing in bad faith at this point. You're saying stupid things that have been proved out over history and simply ignoring logic put in front of you. We get it, your pro Russia, but at least do a better job.
That has nothing to do with your assertion that top-down direction in the army is weird or that the military is somehow not part of the government.
Fascists think the military should give orders to the civilian government.