Israel's new defense minister says Hezbollah defeated; Netanyahu acknowledges approving pager attacks

MicroWave@lemmy.world to World News@lemmy.world – 138 points – Israel's new defense minister says Hezbollah defeated; Netanyahu acknowledges approving pager attacks
nbcnews.com

Summary

Israeli Defense Minister Israel Katz announced that Israel has “defeated Hezbollah” following a series of operations, including the assassination of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah.

The campaign included a September attack on Hezbollah communication devices, where thousands of pagers exploded in Beirut, killing 39 and injuring over 3,400.

Israeli media reported that Prime Minister Netanyahu personally approved the pager attack despite internal opposition.

Israel now hopes an international coalition encourage Lebanon to normalize relations with Israel.

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It wasn't a terrorist attack.

An indiscriminate attack on an unsuspecting population using planted explosives and does not differentiate between civilians and enemy combatants isn't a "terrorist attack."

What is it then? A "police action"? "Self-defense"?

From AP

A booby trap is defined as “any device designed or adapted to kill or injure, and which functions unexpectedly when a person disturbs or approaches an apparently harmless object,” according to Article 7 of a 1996 adaptation of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons, which Israel has adopted.

The protocol prohibits booby traps “or other devices in the form of apparently harmless portable objects which are specifically designed and constructed to contain explosive material.”

Now, as far as a legal distinction, the jury is still out. But, morally, this is indefensible to the point of being state-sanctioned terrorism.

It is a terrorist attack I dont know what the heck he is talking about.

It wasn't indiscriminate. It very discriminately targeted members of Hezbollah. And a device used to coordinate terror attacks, in this case a pager, is no longer a harmless object.

if I booby trap something intended for someone else but your son or daughter is in possession of it when it triggers, is that precise?

How about the fact that this appears to have been an intent to maim (despite also killing children).

Are these the types of tactics we want to normalize? Or is it just ok when it's used on brown people.

Would Russia doing this to Ukraine count as a well executed precise attack? Vice versa?

Would Russia doing this to Ukraine count as a well executed precise attack?

If Russia were able to plant mini-bombs into the communication equipment distributed to Ukraine's armed forces? Yes, it would be described as a well executed, precise attack.

Far more precise than missile strikes... Especially when every single military target is tightly integrated with non-military infrastructure and civilians. And the men and women of Hezbollah (women are always conveniently left out, but are 100% complicit) should know better than to share instruments of terror with their children.

did the children that were killed operate those pagers?

They have mom and dad to thank for that. It's tragic, but how does one fight an evil embedded with children?

When you strike people arbitrarily with booby traps that tends to happen.

American soldiers go home too, is it ok to blow up their families?

"Embed with children." It's an interesting way to describe being with your civilian family while not actively engaged on the battlefield.

When soldiers get to board my plane early I'll be sure to expect it to be shot down, since I'm just a human shield in that scenario.

It was indiscriminate and it was mass terrorism.

As of 22 September 2024, the death toll from the attacks was 42, including at least 12 civilian deaths. More than 3,500 people were injured.

At least 12 people were killed in the first wave of attacks, including civilians such as two health workers, a 9-year-old girl and an 11-year-old boy. The adult son of Ali Ammar, a Hezbollah member of Parliament was killed; Prime Minister Najib Mikati visited southern Beirut to pay his respects. More than 2,750 people were wounded. In the second wave on 18 September, at least 30 people were killed and 750 others were injured. One eye doctor at Mount Lebanon University Hospital reported that a number of those injured showed signs of something being blown up directly in their face, with some losing one or both eyes, while others had shrapnel in their brains. The Lebanese health ministry reported that 300 people had lost both eyes and 500 people had lost one eye as a result of the pager attacks. Other doctors saw severe hand, waist and facial injuries, reporting patients with fingers torn, hands amputated, eyes popped out of the socket and facial lacerations.

Health Minister Firass Abiad said the vast majority of those being treated in emergency rooms were in civilian clothing and their Hezbollah affiliation was unclear. He added the casualties included elderly people as well as young children. According to the Health Ministry, healthcare workers were also injured and it advised all healthcare workers to discard their pagers. On 26 September, Abdallah Bou Habib, Lebanon's Foreign Minister, confirmed that most of those carrying pagers were not fighters, rather civilians like administrators. Qassim Qassir, a Lebanese expert on Hezbollah, said the attacks mostly struck civilian workers, leaving its military wing largely unaffected. An unnamed source said 1,500 Hezbollah fighters were taken out of action due to injuries, with many blinded or having lost their hands.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Lebanon_pager_explosions

“International humanitarian law prohibits indiscriminate attacks – meaning attacks that fail to distinguish between civilians and military targets. It also prohibits the use of the type of booby-traps that appear to have been used in these attacks.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/09/lebanon-establish-international-investigation-into-deadly-attacks-using-exploding-portable-devices/

“Such attacks could constitute war crimes of murder, attacking civilians, and launching indiscriminate attacks, in addition to violating the right to life,” the experts said.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/09/exploding-pagers-and-radios-terrifying-violation-international-law-say-un

Just because Israel routinely violates international humanitarian law and targets civilians doesn't make this any less of a violation of international humanitarian law and a war crime

and their Hezbollah affiliation was unclear.

Why would Hezbollah distribute one way pagers to non-members? These pagers weren't for sale on the open market. Hezbollah bought them for their members only.

Hezbollah actually had a good idea to use these pagers instead of cell phones. Cell phones can be tracked, these pagers can't be tracked. Unfortunately for Hezbollah, the IDF has infiltrated the Hezbollah's communications.

Not all of Hezbollah are combatants, things are not that simple. Not all of Hezbollah are militants, there are many social workers and politicians. Such as members of the Lebanese Parliament and Medical Workers in Hospitals. And even if they were, there are zero guarantees that all the pagers ended up in the hands of Hezbollah members. And even if that was the case, detonating them in public spaces is still a violation of international humanitarian law. By it's nature this was a massive terrorism attack

::: spoiler Quote

Hezbollah organizes an extensive social development program and runs hospitals, news services, educational facilities, and encouragement of Nikah mut‘ah. Some of its established institutions are: Emdad committee for Islamic Charity, Hezbollah Central Press Office, Al Jarha Association, and Jihad Al Binaa Developmental Association. Jihad Al Binna's Reconstruction Campaign is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructure development projects in Lebanon. Hezbollah has set up a Martyr's Institute (Al-Shahid Social Association), which guarantees to provide living and education expenses for the families of fighters who die in battle.

Hezbollah holds 14 of the 128 seats in the Parliament of Lebanon and is a member of the Resistance and Development Bloc. According to Daniel L. Byman, it is "the most powerful single political movement in Lebanon." Hezbollah, along with the Amal Movement, represents most of Lebanese Shi'a.

:::

Like u/whyflip said it wasn’t a terrorist attack.

How to know someone is a racist piece of shit 🙂

How to know someone is a Terrorist.

I bet you think that attack on the Israeli military base was a terrorist attack right?

I'm not the person you are replying to, but yes, an attack on an Israeli base is a legitimate attack, not a 'terrorist attack'.

Thank you. I'm not sure if you recall, but in the news (not sure which site but I'm assuming some Israeli one) they portrayed an attack on some Israeli base as "murdering teenagers".

Those "teenagers" were 18 and were enlisted to the IDF. Those were soliders killed, not just some random teenagers off the street.

Those “teenagers” were 18 and were enlisted to the IDF

Heh. Typical. Technically correct, but used in a way meant to be wildly misleading. Something similar is done regarding gun crime victims. One misleading stat involves "children" who are victims of gun violence. Some of these 'victims' are gang members in their late teens or early twenties.

Israel is attacked so much by terrorists it is difficult to know which one you are referring to.

Can you clarify which sudden and deliberate attack on a fellow allies military installation you mean?

"Attacked all the time" yeah I bet theirs people dying left and right in Israel right? People struggling to survive? No, that's the victims of Israels attacks.

What an easily manipulated little fool. Fascists are just reaping and reaping what they've sown. Reducing words to simple labels for "us" vs. "them" without looking at how those actions compare and contrast.

By definition I'm the good guy, by definition you're the bad guy, anything else is too hard on my feeble brain.

It's not your fault, you might forget to breathe if you try to apply that thing.

So after picking through your word salad, I take it you’ve lost track of which terrorist attack on Israel you are referring to then?

You're right, it's only Terrorism when it comes from the Terror region of the Middle East. This is just sparkling civilian murder designed to cause fear and chaos.

The pagers were distributed to members of Hezbollah, not civilians. If you hate Jews, they can do no right. Even when they specifically target the enemy, it's now an act of terror against "civilians".

Conflating israel with the Jewish people is antisemitic.

It's a Jewish state. So no, it's not.

This is consistent with your fascist mindset at least, and it's the exact attitude that led to interment camps. Congratulations.

Conservatives can't see shades of grey and they're too fragile to let them be so a black and white worldview is forcibly imposed on everyone.

You're everything wrong with humanity.

I'm not conservative, fascist, or antisemitic. You're wrong on every level. I'm done here.

Can you explain to me how you're supportive of Israel's government and its actions without it being from a conservative or fascist perspective?

What do you identify as?

I never called you antisemitic, I don't conflate opinions on Israel or Zionism with people's Jewish identity. There are many anti-Israel and anti-Zionist Jews.

And North Korea is a Democratic Republic.

Conflating Israel with Jews is antisemitic.

bibi wants to pretend to represent all the Jews, so that when he commits atrocities he can blame any criticism on antisemitism.

People wonder why antisemitism is increasing exponentially and this post is a prime example of it: someone who I can probably guess is an American, probably secular or Christian, yet telling me that the state of Israel is actually just "Jews". It's blood libel to claim that the Jewish faith alone is responsible for acts of terror against civilians (because guess what, these pagers were imported for EVERYONE who makes use of pagers, including countless medical staff).

I won't engage with antisemites like you, there is no saving anyone who has seen the last year (let alone 75 years) of unrelenting terror from Israel and the US, only to blame it on Jewish people who the majority of which have always lived outside of Israel. The Zionist project is a Christian and American project, and has turned the image of Judaism into one of hatred and slaughter on their behalf.

I'm not an antisemite and very obviously pro Israel. I've been to Israel, I know plenty about it, its people, and its history.

If it had been perpetrated against Israelis you would not be saying this.