Why do you think people should or shouldn't know about the side effects of the COVID vaccine?locked

Veritas@lemmy.ml to Asklemmy@lemmy.ml – -59 points –

I've seen a video talking about the leaked Facebook files where it says they should remove true information about side effects. It says Facebook should remove:

True information:

a. Delta: The Surgeon General wants us to remove true information about side effects.

Why do you think people should or shouldn't know about the side effects of the COVID vaccine?

There are people questioning the veracity of the quote so I've searched a bit and found some sources.

::: spoiler spoiler

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It's because 99.9% of the time when someone says "I just want you to know about the side effects" they

  • Have learned it from YouTube or the internet and do not possess a medical degree
  • Do not fully understand what is reported as a side effect, or that most reporting databases are treated as "Could it even remotely be possibly attributed to a vaccine, if so then post it here and let the experts figure out"
  • Will not admit that experts are in fact, experts, and that they should be relied on more than random internet people
  • Will continue to argue on any point for eternity, never listening to any counter points

We have heard it, we understand it already, we are informed. The risks are minute and rare, vaccines are some of those things that we each take a tiny risk so that society as a whole can survive and continue without these horrible diseases. If you are unwilling to take a vaccine that has a <0.01% chance of giving you a minor side effect because you are so selfish that you can't see what herd immunity is, then that says more about you than any side effects would.

We are talking about the US government censoring true information about side effects, you are talking about something different.

If this is your issue then we need to also make the clarification of what is exactly happening.

The studies that happened, all published and available online via government websites. They aren't dumbed down for lay people, just the technical documents provided by actual scientific researchers. All of that is not being censored. If you have evidence of the government actually tamporing with medical publication then we have a bigger issue.

What is potentially being censored are generalized publications on non-medical, non-technical forms. The reason for allowing this type of sensoring are many of the previously mentioned.

So I think a better question to ask is why are people seeking any sort of informed statements from FB on medical conditions? At best what should be found on those sites are statements as to why one should be worried about a pandemic, that a vaccine exists and you should seek advice from actual medical professionals. Side affects should NOT dictate the default stance on a public health issue. If you are worried about them, having been susceptible to side affects in the past, then you should speak to your doctor.

If you can't get the vaccine without the inclusion of a doctor, nurse, or pharmacist then you shouldn't be given medical advice of any sort from the same laymen. FB should not be allowing any sort of information about medicine beyond it exists, and it is important you go talk to your doctor.

I don't understand. Could you dumb it down for me? Should people know the side effects? As I understand from your comment, even true information should be banned from FB because people should go there only to hear opinions anyways, not factual medical information. Am I right? I really disagree because first is medical information, and then it will be something else, until no one has the right to say anything.

Should people know the side effects?

They will know about the side effects, because those are discussed with the medical professional that performs the inoculation.

Talking about the side effects on Facebook is like diagnosing yourself with cancer from WebMD. Or ruling out cancer based on WebMD.

The pandemic is a social issue. We all have a responsibility the rest of the population to do what we can to not spread. The problem with this is we expect people to not be stupid and make truly informed decision.

There was a ridiculous number of people who said they weren't getting the vaccine because some rapper said their cousin's gf's neighbor's husbands balls fell off after getting the vaccine. Those people apparently didn't have a basic epistemology that would cause them to take pause on something so stupid.

What does this have to do with legitimate publications? How many people do you think have read medical or technical publications? How many of them do you thinking know know the difference between the types of studies, how the statistics work or efficacy? How many side effects medical terms do you think the average joe understands? Often times people misunderstand that the affects of the disease are far far worse and far more likely than the side affects.

If you have questions about side affects you should be talking to a doctor. If you don't understand why going to them is important then you are the type of person who may be swayed by some rapper's balls falling off when there is absolutely zero evidence for it. It also means you probably wont really understand the side affects and may make a decision because you misunderstand what they are.

LOL dude no, get out of here. I was told when it came out that 200,000 had died of the vaccine. That's an entire mid size city in the US, gone. Poof. That means everyone in the US would know at least several people who have died from it. Stop acting superior, it's a proven fact, government or not.

You are selfish for being afraid of a vaccine. You are selfish for not being brave enough to go get it to add to herd immunity to protect those who cannot get protection of it. You do not have some secret knowledge of government conspiracies, you are not Nero of the matrix and do not have everything figured out while we are dumb NPCs. Go, be brave, get the shot, and move on to something else in your life. If you get a side effect that lasts more than a day, I will personally buy you a coke for being wrong.

Which government?

I love that he keeps referencing "the government" and "the US government" as if they control what other countries do. Like Sweden would give two fucks what the US government is trying to hide, they'd be telling everyone.

That was a mistake, I fixed it. The quote is from the US government, this doesn't have anything to do with all governments.

No dude, that's my point. Even if the US government wanted to keep it a secret, why haven't we heard anything from Australia? Switzerland? Sweden? The EU in general? The US government does not "control the world" dude, you know that right? If it was unsafe and the US was censoring it... other countries wouldn't have to follow our rules. That's what I'm saying. if it's a conspiracy, then it would have to be a global conspiracy beyond anything we've ever seen, with zero leaks, with zero doctors coming forward breaking oaths, with no rogue governments.

There definitely wouldn't be some video posted on freaking YouTube about it.

There have been doctors coming out, you just can't hear their opinion on the main channels because they are controlled by the US. And there have been videos posted on freaking YouTube about it, but guess what YouTube is censored just as well as Facebook because it's hosted in the US.

Oh and the deceased! We be hearing about them world wide, oh and the families of the deceased. What about the friends of the deceased! With that many of those people who have been kept quiet now too. How many hundreds of millions are in on the secret now?

No one is talking about the deceased. As long as I know the side effects include myocarditis in 1 out of 35 people vaccinated, so if someone dies of it, it wouldn't automatically be attributed to the vaccine, specially with the US censoring the relation between vaccine and side effects.

Myocardial Injury after COVID-19 mRNA-1273 Booster Vaccination

But I found the paper in a Rumble video so I guess that makes it misinformation right @Veraticus@lib.lgbt ? Or is it just when you disagree with it?

From your link:

mRNA-1273 booster vaccination-associated elevation of markers of myocardial injury occurred in about one out of 35 persons(2.8%), a greater incidence than estimated in meta-analyses of hospitalized cases with myocarditis (estimated incidence 0.0035%) after the second vaccination.14,15 Elevated hs-cTnT was independent of previous COVID infection or the interval since the last vaccine dose. Among the overall group of participants, hs-cTnT concentration on day 3 after mRNA-1273 booster vaccination as a continuous variable, was significantly higher compared to a well-matched control cohort. Second, all cases were mild with only a transient and short period of myocardial injury (maximum hs-cTnT concentration 35ng/L).

It goes on to say:

Thus, for the majority of individuals, the overall very favorable risk-benefit ratio of booster immunizations persists.

The concluding paragraph:

In conclusion, using active surveillance, mRNA-1273 vaccine-associated mild transient myocardial injury was found to be much more common than previously thought. It occurred in one out of 35 persons, was mild and transient, and more frequent in women versus men. Neither anti-IL-1RA, nor pre-existing vaccine/infection-induced immunity or systemic inflammation seemed to be dominant mechanisms of myocardial injury. No participant developed MACE within 30-day

MACE stands for "Major adverse cardiac events"

I'm not sure what your angle is/was, but the study sounds like it's not really a big deal at all, compared to the adverse effects of getting COVID without the jab. It's only interesting from a medical study standpoint.

My angle is that the US government wants to censor even this type of information just for pointing at side effects, and people should be pissed but they just don't seem to care, and I'm wondering why they don't care about the US censoring this information.

Ignore OP, he's arguing in bad faith and refuses to see any other valid points against his opinion.

The vaccine compared to all other vaccines is a negligible difference. Plus op is ignoring the insane amount of people covid did kill.

@Veritas your link does not quite say what you think it says/were told it says. Here's what it says:

  • 2.8 percent of people in the study had mild myocardial effects (that's your one in 35)

  • most of them were women

  • the effects were shortlived, "mild and transient"

  • none of them even had any ECG changes

  • none of them had any adverse cardiac event

Here's a link to the actual published paper which is easier to read in browsers and carries more weight.

This is freely available information and I wish more media did cover it in a responsible manner, because this data supports that the vaccine is quite safe - we see the same thing in the larger cohort studies.

Unfortunately what we have in many western countries is a "dumbed down" populace that consumes childish media stories with very little information in them.

Good point! Manufacturers of meds, everyone in the supply chain there would have to know so they'd be able to produce more. This is good I was wondering how the supply chain fit in. Truckers suddenly supplying more medication secretly under the cover of night, this all makes sense, this is good keep me going. Who else knows that haven't told us yet?

Insurance of course! Think of all the extra hospital bills that they're paying out. Of course they would all be in on it which means that HR an employer is mostly are too because they have to pay for the extra sick time and the extra insurance premiums!

The pastors and morticians of friends and families, the secret crematoriums, the morgues who process all of these cases

The millions of nursing staff, from pediatricians to elder care, ho elder care homes that one is probably huge. Again friends and family of all these people

Wow this conspiracy just keeps going, all of these people are all in on it. All of them just silently shredding documents and hiding numbers. Wow okay let's keep going with who else is involved.

THE IRS OF COURSE.

Just think of the missing tax revenue! How are they hiding it all?! Man that one must be hard because you have to hide it somewhere else while also keeping the secret going

Ok, then why isn't it on youku or bilibil or wechat or telegram or whatever the fuck the russians use? There's only two options here:

  1. That there is a global conspiracy where Putin, Xi Jinping, Kovind, Bolsonaro and everyone else ALL got together and agreed to absolutely never dunk on the US even once

  2. You're batshit insane

Pick one

The quote is from the Joe Biden administration.