That's the argument as I understand it - they hope to generate sympathy from the public and I assume legal system…”looks at that frail, harmless old man”. It's a charade that I experienced while in a jury pool - defendant was in a wheelchair and looked like a weak, sick elderly man…accused of stabbing and nearly killing a much younger, healthy woman. I doubt she just stood there as he slowly rolled up.
It works the opposite way too.
My one and only court appearance I was the only sentencee wearing a suit. Everyone else was wearing casual/pajama type clothing to the point the judge even brought it up himself.
"Well you look very nice Mr. Weirdguy. I wish more people realized this is supposed to be a formal occasion"
He then gave me the absolute minimum sentence possible for what I was there for.
I was the only well-dressed person in court in a po-dunk town. I got singled out by a judge because I stuck out compared to the low-rent population of the town. He seemed to hate me for it.
It was for driving on a suspended license. The only reason he didn't give me jail time was because I was a college student and would miss classes. Wow, that was forever ago.
Whenever a politician is indicted for corruptions or other crimes in the Philippines they suddenly show up on a wheel chair and wearing a neck brace.
This was a former president being charged with plunder
How they hell someone that supposedly fucked up manage to get into he pleather pants?
But it does influence people, if only subconsciously.
The point of it isn't to say "look at this weak old man, he could never have committed these acts".
It's to hopefully sway a jury into thinking that they're so old they're not a threat, and maybe create a deadlock. Then, if that fails, then to hopefully garner a lighter sentence, for much the same reason, that they're no longer a threat.
It is bullshit, neither of the two you used as examples had any mobility issues before arrest, and any that they might have developed afterwards wood not be as severe as they made it look. Mind you, the stress, the physical demands of processing, the extra travel and such could cause someone to have extra problems. My crippled ass could barely walk to the car on my cane after the last time I got called for jury duty. There's a lot of walking around on concrete floors and sitting in horrible seats at courthouses. It'll fuck your back up.
But you aren't going from walking without a cane to needing a walker in the amount of time that passed. Not without a damn big reason.
But think about it, when you see some old dude hobbling along, is your first thought really going to be "I bet they're faking it"? Even if you know they are faking it, that image of a weak person plays on prejudices of thought that damn near everyone has. Look at the idiots that scream about "boomers" this and "boomers" that, like everyone over a certain age is flawed. We all have prejudices of thought, assumptions, and it's damn near impossible to completely control them and ignore what our eyes see.
You might achieve that when it's fresh in your mind, but the next time you go to the store and see some old lady on a cane, are you really going to be thinking about how she could be doing yoga and pulled a muscle; or are you going to be thinking about how that poor old lady is in rough shape because she's old, and that's all you can see until/unless you stop and think about it? Most people, they never see an old person as a threat.
Man, I barely have any gray in my beard, and I'm a fucking sasquatch. I've still got arms bigger than some people's thighs, and just by me using a cane (and I need one, if I want to not fall when my leg gives out), people react very different than when I'm leaned up against a wall with my cane strapped across my back. On cane, they just look away as fast as they can. With it not in use, I get suspicious looks, and adults hurrying away, and the occasional security person asking why I'm just standing against the wall.
I've seen it hundreds of times when I'm out with people from my disability support group. You let my buddy Spider get out of his scooter, and him being a small guy with a twisted spine on a cane is still not going to have people walking around him the way they do with the scooter. They'll give him more room, but not the same. The guys and gals that have less visible disabilities have their own issues with people treating them different when they're using a mobility aid compared to when they aren't.
It's a thing. We all build up these links in our heads, associations with things we've experienced that we use to evaluate new things. Ignoring those etched in patterns is hard, even when you're aware of it.
It's not going to work perfectly, or every time, but it does happen
OK just so I get this straight as a healthy 40 years black lesbian if I ever get caught up in the legal system I can walk in with a cane or walker or something else showing i am fucked up but i am not. And I will get a lesser sentence?
No guarantees. Look at Weinstein. Sucker is still in jail.
It's all about believability vs the crime, with any biases in the jury and judge.
They're is a fairly common thing where the harder it is to imprison someone based on their disability, the more likely they are to get more lenient sentences, but that's still not foolproof.
If you're faking it, chances are that no judge is going to be fooled unless there's a long history of disability. Juries might be easier to fool to some degree, but you'd still need to convince them that your disability is evidence you didn't commit the crime to be able to rely on it, and that's going to be hard.
It's otherwise rolling dice that are weighted against you.
You'd be surprised.
I have a friend who is a disability lawyer, and he's constantly telling his clients not to dress nice or wear makeup.
Someone who looks good instantly appears more capable, no matter what the facts are. These "feeble old men" couldn't possibly be capable of over powering someone! Or at the very least, their sentence may be reduced if "grandpa doesn't look like he can handle prison".
It works. There's no denying it.
Part of it is to elicit sympathy, but there is a legitimate loss of health that comes from a stressful ordeal like a trial.
The same reason companies have marketing and PR: perception matters, a lot.
It influences folks subconsciously, which in legal proceedings with a significant public relations component, is powerful and effective. It's even better to influence people without their conscious awareness that it's happening. And yes, some folks aren't taken in by it, but a surprising number are. It would be tantamount to legal malpractice not to advise your client to try. 🙄
It might work. Sentences can be subjective, and it probably isn't going to hurt. Why not try. Same reason people dress up for court: suit, tie—everything they wouldn't normally wear
Because they get away with their crimes for decades and then they're old by the time there's an attempt at accountability.
Remind me if I get pulled over to come out with an oxygen mask. And I will rent a wheelchair and just roll into court.
Presumably you are a pleb like the rest of us... this shit don't work for losers...
This shit used to work when boomers' opinion was the only thing that mattered. Think of that meme of oprah kissing all of the notorious elite sex pests... Back in the day she could say, I know these men, they are fine and suburban trash Karen would LARP it🤡
Now non boomers seeing these parasites what what they are... Wouldn't piss on them if they were dying on fire.
Fuck 'em... Let them rot in prison.
Um don't know the Oprah reference can you link?
Can't find the meme where she is kissing every second pest...
Stress and anxiety often manifest physically, best-case-scenario is it's just the metaphysical weight of their wretched deeds literally destroying their bodies.
Yea but before going in they can walk right up with no canes or walkers. But then they get to trial its all pathetic looking.
That's the argument as I understand it - they hope to generate sympathy from the public and I assume legal system…”looks at that frail, harmless old man”. It's a charade that I experienced while in a jury pool - defendant was in a wheelchair and looked like a weak, sick elderly man…accused of stabbing and nearly killing a much younger, healthy woman. I doubt she just stood there as he slowly rolled up.
It works the opposite way too.
My one and only court appearance I was the only sentencee wearing a suit. Everyone else was wearing casual/pajama type clothing to the point the judge even brought it up himself.
"Well you look very nice Mr. Weirdguy. I wish more people realized this is supposed to be a formal occasion"
He then gave me the absolute minimum sentence possible for what I was there for.
I was the only well-dressed person in court in a po-dunk town. I got singled out by a judge because I stuck out compared to the low-rent population of the town. He seemed to hate me for it.
It was for driving on a suspended license. The only reason he didn't give me jail time was because I was a college student and would miss classes. Wow, that was forever ago.
Whenever a politician is indicted for corruptions or other crimes in the Philippines they suddenly show up on a wheel chair and wearing a neck brace.
This was a former president being charged with plunder
How they hell someone that supposedly fucked up manage to get into he pleather pants?
But it does influence people, if only subconsciously.
The point of it isn't to say "look at this weak old man, he could never have committed these acts".
It's to hopefully sway a jury into thinking that they're so old they're not a threat, and maybe create a deadlock. Then, if that fails, then to hopefully garner a lighter sentence, for much the same reason, that they're no longer a threat.
It is bullshit, neither of the two you used as examples had any mobility issues before arrest, and any that they might have developed afterwards wood not be as severe as they made it look. Mind you, the stress, the physical demands of processing, the extra travel and such could cause someone to have extra problems. My crippled ass could barely walk to the car on my cane after the last time I got called for jury duty. There's a lot of walking around on concrete floors and sitting in horrible seats at courthouses. It'll fuck your back up.
But you aren't going from walking without a cane to needing a walker in the amount of time that passed. Not without a damn big reason.
But think about it, when you see some old dude hobbling along, is your first thought really going to be "I bet they're faking it"? Even if you know they are faking it, that image of a weak person plays on prejudices of thought that damn near everyone has. Look at the idiots that scream about "boomers" this and "boomers" that, like everyone over a certain age is flawed. We all have prejudices of thought, assumptions, and it's damn near impossible to completely control them and ignore what our eyes see.
You might achieve that when it's fresh in your mind, but the next time you go to the store and see some old lady on a cane, are you really going to be thinking about how she could be doing yoga and pulled a muscle; or are you going to be thinking about how that poor old lady is in rough shape because she's old, and that's all you can see until/unless you stop and think about it? Most people, they never see an old person as a threat.
Man, I barely have any gray in my beard, and I'm a fucking sasquatch. I've still got arms bigger than some people's thighs, and just by me using a cane (and I need one, if I want to not fall when my leg gives out), people react very different than when I'm leaned up against a wall with my cane strapped across my back. On cane, they just look away as fast as they can. With it not in use, I get suspicious looks, and adults hurrying away, and the occasional security person asking why I'm just standing against the wall.
I've seen it hundreds of times when I'm out with people from my disability support group. You let my buddy Spider get out of his scooter, and him being a small guy with a twisted spine on a cane is still not going to have people walking around him the way they do with the scooter. They'll give him more room, but not the same. The guys and gals that have less visible disabilities have their own issues with people treating them different when they're using a mobility aid compared to when they aren't.
It's a thing. We all build up these links in our heads, associations with things we've experienced that we use to evaluate new things. Ignoring those etched in patterns is hard, even when you're aware of it.
It's not going to work perfectly, or every time, but it does happen
OK just so I get this straight as a healthy 40 years black lesbian if I ever get caught up in the legal system I can walk in with a cane or walker or something else showing i am fucked up but i am not. And I will get a lesser sentence?
No guarantees. Look at Weinstein. Sucker is still in jail.
It's all about believability vs the crime, with any biases in the jury and judge.
They're is a fairly common thing where the harder it is to imprison someone based on their disability, the more likely they are to get more lenient sentences, but that's still not foolproof.
If you're faking it, chances are that no judge is going to be fooled unless there's a long history of disability. Juries might be easier to fool to some degree, but you'd still need to convince them that your disability is evidence you didn't commit the crime to be able to rely on it, and that's going to be hard.
It's otherwise rolling dice that are weighted against you.
You'd be surprised.
I have a friend who is a disability lawyer, and he's constantly telling his clients not to dress nice or wear makeup.
Someone who looks good instantly appears more capable, no matter what the facts are. These "feeble old men" couldn't possibly be capable of over powering someone! Or at the very least, their sentence may be reduced if "grandpa doesn't look like he can handle prison".
It works. There's no denying it.
Part of it is to elicit sympathy, but there is a legitimate loss of health that comes from a stressful ordeal like a trial.
The same reason companies have marketing and PR: perception matters, a lot.
It influences folks subconsciously, which in legal proceedings with a significant public relations component, is powerful and effective. It's even better to influence people without their conscious awareness that it's happening. And yes, some folks aren't taken in by it, but a surprising number are. It would be tantamount to legal malpractice not to advise your client to try. 🙄
It might work. Sentences can be subjective, and it probably isn't going to hurt. Why not try. Same reason people dress up for court: suit, tie—everything they wouldn't normally wear
Because they get away with their crimes for decades and then they're old by the time there's an attempt at accountability.
Remind me if I get pulled over to come out with an oxygen mask. And I will rent a wheelchair and just roll into court.
Presumably you are a pleb like the rest of us... this shit don't work for losers...
This shit used to work when boomers' opinion was the only thing that mattered. Think of that meme of oprah kissing all of the notorious elite sex pests... Back in the day she could say, I know these men, they are fine and suburban trash Karen would LARP it🤡
Now non boomers seeing these parasites what what they are... Wouldn't piss on them if they were dying on fire.
Fuck 'em... Let them rot in prison.
Um don't know the Oprah reference can you link?
Can't find the meme where she is kissing every second pest...
But this provides some context
https://www.ebony.com/seal-oprah-meme/
Stress and anxiety often manifest physically, best-case-scenario is it's just the metaphysical weight of their wretched deeds literally destroying their bodies.
Yea but before going in they can walk right up with no canes or walkers. But then they get to trial its all pathetic looking.